Important: Five Additions to the HWBoints Suite in 2014

Following the results of a recent poll, we will enable hardware, global, and world record points for five benchmarks in 2014. The following benchmarks will be added to the HWBoints (="benchmarks with points at hwbot") suite: Cinebench R15, HWBOT Prime, UCBench 2011, Catzilla 720P, and Catzilla 1440P

The choice for Cinebench R15 and Catzilla 720p is simply following the results from the poll. These two benchmarks were with respectively 62% and 42% the most requested by the community.

HWBOT Prime and Catzilla 1440p were 3rd and 4th on that list, and each have additional argumentation to include in the suite. HWBOT Prime is our in-house open-source benchmark, and has passed the test of being ready for competitive environment during the Country Cup. Its cross-platform nature will provide a good foundation for future projects.

Catzilla 1440p is the highest preset of the new Catzilla benchmark. You can compare it to Fire Strike Extreme in 3DMark. Even though the preset can only be unlocked by paying a licensing fee (a mere USD $5), we want to include it in the HWBoints suite as well. Primarily because of the poll result. Secondarily because we want to be very clear in our support for this new 3D benchmark. Catzilla is the best alternative to the 3DMark series since Aquamark, and it is important to our hobby and community that we have a wider variety of benchmarks. Note: Fire Strike Extreme is also pay-only, and has points enabled.

Last but not least, we also include a benchmark that was not included in the poll. UCBench 2011 has been around for a while, and has been accepted by many as a decent benchmark. With over 10,000 submissions it has been tested thoroughly, and it already has hardware points enabled.

We will enable points for the benchmarks in early January, depending on the schedule of the New Year's parties and CES. Feel free to check out the updated benchmark verification rules pages to check for errors and feedback if necessary. Until then, Happy Holidays everyone!


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Belgium Massman says:

Spread the word!

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

This is f.. nuts

Don't know yet in a good way or not

Australia Dinos22 says:

dfuq is UCbench and why do we need to add it :p seriously though it's really going to make it a lot harder for the guys playing in this group having to add another 5 benchmarks. just thinking outloud

Belgium Massman says:

Why? It's freestyle - you can choose what you want to bench.

Australia Dinos22 says:

I meant for guys that are in OC league like sniper mtech and sofos. Do they have to add another 5 benchmarks now?

Belgium Massman says:

No, why? You can choose any benchmark to get to 15 global and 20 hardware scores.

Australia Dinos22 says:

In that case bring it on :) I like catzilla. It's pretty cool

Belgium leeghoofd says:

Is the music even better in the 1440P version ? I like the new additions a lot, great choice to go for more diversity !

Germany Moose83 says:

Dann much more to bench now :D

Belgium leeghoofd says:

I would vote for 1440P only for iGPS and APUs :p

Germany Moose83 says:

:p Haha Albrecht :D So which Benchmarks get than global Points? Cine R15 right, Catzilla and Co also? :)

Germany der8auer says:

Great stuff. Looking forward to HWBot Prime. Quick and good benchmark!

Puerto Rico chispy says:

Leeghoofd said: I would vote for 1440P only for iGPS and APUs :p


Leeg :eek:, noooooooooooooooooo .... Please no more iGPs , APUs and Hybrid nightmares :p , hehehhe ...

zeropluszero says:

Do we really need two versions of cinebench with points enabled?

Australia FatBoyNotSoSlim says:

Can someone confirm this for me, please? On the compare page, Catzilla Advanced says it's $4.99, but when I go to pay, it's $4.99 for a monthly license subscription, or $14.99 outright. Can I subscribe, register, then cancel the sub, only paying the $5 in total?

Italy Gigioracing says:

hwbot prime is good for retrocloking !!

Australia FlashG says:

That was fun!!!!!!! I'm ready :)

Belgium leeghoofd says:

[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66364457/catzilla.jpg[/IMG]

Can't upload the 1440P data file ( Invalid data file: Unable to parse the datafile ), however if I work via the Catzilla site it all works :confused:

United States Mr.Scott says:

zeropluszero said: Do we really need two versions of cinebench with points enabled?

Agreed.

Norway knopflerbruce says:

Well, given all the 3DMarks out there this is not a huge problem:D We've also got pifast and superpi 1m (superpi 1m vs 32m is also interesting), wprime 32m vs 1024m. I don't think it's a bad thing to have a few similar benchmarks - and CB15 is better than CB11.5, anyway. Slightly better scoring system and it supports more threads.

Australia FlashG says:

There are a lot of very expensive systems doing rendering... R11.5 and R15 behave differently in these high-end systems. It is good to have benchmarks that can help understand how to fine-tune these systems. It would be nice to have points for the OpenGL rendering in R15 too... and while we are on it, how about some pure CUDA benchmarks for the Scientists among us???
Just some thoughts... :)
FlashG

Belgium Massman says:

Any suggestions ?

Australia FlashG says:

Massman said: Any suggestions ?


Um, this is a bit on the serious sciencey side:

https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~skadron/wiki/rodinia/index.php/Main_Page

Plus, the link includes links to many other contenders...

FlashG

Australia FlashG says:

Massman said: Any suggestions ?


Luxmark might be a good measure of GPGPU performance in OpenCL.... simpler than some of the scientific benches for CUDA.

FlashG

United Kingdom borandi says:

I've done CUDA benchmarks and C++ AMP benchmarks in that section of the forum. The problem with a CUDA benchmark, as PJ and I discussed, is that for a GPU compute benchmark it needs to work on both AMD and NVIDIA, even if it's only the latest generation. C++ AMP does take care of that, but I never put it wholly into practice when I was writing them. E.g. 30 second benchmark, or 2 minute benchmark, or 10 minute benchmark? GPU only or a mix of CPU and GPU score? etc etc Hmm I could do an nBody C++ AMP test. Output score in terms of single precision GFLOPs, that sort of thing.

United Kingdom borandi says:

OK I have a test. Uses GPU for NBody test. Output in GFLOPS. GPUs need to be NOT SLI/Crossfire. Can use any combination AMD/NVIDIA Can use as many GPUs as you like. So that's up to 8. They all have to have the same amount of memory. The benchmark is not affected by - GPU memory mhz - CPU MHz is very small (400 MHz = 0.4% increase) - DRAM MHz has no affect - PCIe lane allocation has no affect. Basically it's all GPU MHz. So roll on 7-8 GPUs all on LN2 ?! At this point, it's a case of how long is the ideal benchmark. 10 seconds? 30 seconds? 4 minutes? The core is coded, just needs a GUI or wrapper with submission to the bot.

Aleslammer says:

All I need is a bigger PS and I'm in.

Australia FlashG says:

borandi said: OK I have a test.

Uses GPU for NBody test. Output in GFLOPS.
GPUs need to be NOT SLI/Crossfire.
Can use any combination AMD/NVIDIA
Can use as many GPUs as you like. So that's up to 8. They all have to have the same amount of memory.

The benchmark is not affected by
- GPU memory mhz
- CPU MHz is very small (400 MHz = 0.4% increase)
- DRAM MHz has no affect
- PCIe lane allocation has no affect.

Basically it's all GPU MHz. So roll on 7-8 GPUs all on LN2 ?!

At this point, it's a case of how long is the ideal benchmark. 10 seconds? 30 seconds? 4 minutes?

The core is coded, just needs a GUI or wrapper with submission to the bot.


Brilliant!!! Bring it on....

FG

United States [GF]Duke says:

I think adding the new benchmarks for points is good. Having tests other than Futuremark is a good move.

United Kingdom Ajay57 says:

What good is benching this new Catzilla and not getting any points!!! Maybe someone here at the HWbot needs to check this out, its all well and good telling everyone to use this. But after Cups and Medals what's the point!!

Please Kindly check things out,

AJ.

United States steponz says:

why not enable wr points for wprime 32? never understood why this isnt enabled...

United States steponz says:

FlashG said: Brilliant!!! Bring it on....

FG


that would be cool...

Australia FlashG says:

steponz said: why not enable wr points for wprime 32? never understood why this isnt enabled...


And while we are on the topic how about WR pts for XTU :)

FG

Norway knopflerbruce says:

I wouldn't mind seeing WR points for wp32m as well, but I believe it's an issue for others that the records are never broken. For XTU... not sure. Let's see if there will be unlocked 8/10/12c MP xeons first. When that happens it'll be a very good idea IMO :)

France Wizerty says:

Are you trying to push all good overclocker from extreme to pro oc ?
5 mores... Make a good screen is hard, and requiert lot of time, make 2 good score... 3...4... if you always add new benchmark, and never remove point for other it will be to hard.

Try to make 20 benchmark with a CPU at full speed under nitrogen... no way. It's probably nice to add more benchmark for people under air, water... but for extrem it's not.
Always ask for more benchmark = poor OC result everywhere.

So stop adding new bench for extreme league, add it for Enthusiast if you want... but if you don't want to see skill become lower and lower we have to stay focus on less benchmark

Norway knopflerbruce says:

This doesn't change much for extreme overclockers, you still have to put up 15 scores with lots of global points and 20 with lots of hardware points. if you choose the new benchmarks or older ones is entirely up to you :) Adding new benchmarks with points is only an issue for grinders, where you need to run everything to keep up with the others :p

Australia FlashG says:

knopflerbruce said: I wouldn't mind seeing WR points for wp32m as well, but I believe it's an issue for others that the records are never broken. For XTU... not sure. Let's see if there will be unlocked 8/10/12c MP xeons first. When that happens it'll be a very good idea IMO :)


No need to wait for unlocked xeons, a Xeon already sits at the top.... And it took a lot of tweaking to get there.

FG

Norway knopflerbruce says:

At that speed/voltage it's a miracle that yourboard didn't blow up :D I'm not pissing on your score, I just feel it's a different game when you bring out the ln2 pots and start pushing 500w through each of the 8 pin connectors.

Germany Moose83 says:

Yeah, think its now enough Benchmarks on Hwbot :)

Australia FlashG says:

knopflerbruce said: At that speed/voltage it's a miracle that yourboard didn't blow up :D

I'm not pissing on your score, I just feel it's a different game when you bring out the ln2 pots and start pushing 500w through each of the 8 pin connectors.


It was edge of the seat sexciting.... But no explosions or flames :(

It isn't a different game... Just different parts of the same game. My scores require less 'brute force knuckle dragging' hardware mods to chase higher volts.... But lots more intelligent and thoughtful software optimisation :)

Best

FG

TaPaKaH says:

An interesting observation:
Seems that with all the extra globals, there is less need to bin "exotic" (1/2/6+) core CPUs or run cards on cold.
Just bin Haswell, and have 14 (1M, 32M, two wPrimes, two Cinebenches, XTU, hwbot prime, lucy-bench, AM3, 01, 03, 05, 06) out of 15 global-scoring categories automatically covered once you find a good one.

Belgium Massman says:

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

United Kingdom Ajay57 says:

Any closer to telling us when the points system will be added to the Catzilla Bench Marks??????? And if you have already run these in Advanced will the still receive the points when its finally been sorted??

If so would a Recalculation be the way to award the points and add to you own tally???

Respectfully,

AJ.

United Kingdom Ajay57 says:

Many Thanks to the HWbot and giving out the points for Catzilla, i was very happy to see the results from my Benching.
Will now try to better my scores and gain some more points!!

Respectfully,

Ajay.

Belgium Massman says:

Good luck and (most importantly) have fun!!

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

The only thing that bugs me is that you need a kickass display to be able to run Catzilla 1440p. Even my Dell 2412M isn't good enough, sigh :(

United Kingdom Ajay57 says:

OH REALLY i have just a normal 60Hz Asus display it works with that!! I managed to run both Bench Marks, so give it a go and see!! AJ.

Canada Vinster says:

Antinomy said: The only thing that bugs me is that you need a kickass display to be able to run Catzilla 1440p. Even my Dell 2412M isn't good enough, sigh :(


I thought it scaled to fit? I could had sworn I was running the 1440 test on my 1050 display during the beta. or is it different now?

Vin

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

I tried to run it on a 1366*768 laptop. The problem is the test hang after several subtests. And the results were bugged - much higher than should be like it's run not on 1440p but on 540p or kind of.

Strunkenbold says:

I really have to say that I just didnt red earlier that also World Record Points are awarded for the 4 cpu benchmarks. Actually, we introduced a Global Point Fix to prevent that Server guys take over rankings by simply running benchmarks on non-overclocked systems. Now we do basically the same just this time we give out every one with the biggest server system 100 World Record Points and this 5 times!

So I would recommend we should probably think about removing WRP again from some benchmarks. In my opinion we could keep them for Prime and Cinebench R15 and kill the rest, including wprime1024.

Second thing I wanted to propose is to disable GPs for Cinebench R11.5. I really expected somehow, that we do this anyway by enabling points for r15. But now I see, we didnt. As we have now basically two identical benchmarks. You may say now we have 3DMark03, 05, 06 also enabled for points but there were really some differences to be noted between those versions. But in Cinebench R15 we still render somehow the same its just a different point system.

GENiEBEN says:

Awarding WR points to anyone but the server guys is like awarding fastest car to anyone but Bugatti because it's too expensive, and out of reach for 99.99%. Stop binning 4700K's and invest in a 4P, now! I agree with Globals for Cine, keep them for just one of them.

Australia robbo2 says:

GENiEBEN said: Awarding WR points to anyone but the server guys is like awarding fastest car to anyone but Bugatti because it's too expensive, and out of reach for 99.99%. Stop binning 4700K's and invest in a 4P, now!


You can sell the bad chips to buy more to bin. Can't do that if your saving up entirely for one system.

Norway knopflerbruce says:

4P <=> 4-way CF/SLI. CB11 and CB15 are not identical, http://www.techpowerup.com/191833/maxon-cinebench-r15-posted.html Also, at the moment we have WR points for 11 3D benchmarks, and only 5 2D. If anything, we should try to reduce the difference, not increase it.

websmile says:

knopflerbruce said: 4P <=> 4-way CF/SLI.

CB11 and CB15 are not identical, http://www.techpowerup.com/191833/maxon-cinebench-r15-posted.html

Also, at the moment we have WR points for 11 3D benchmarks, and only 5 2D. If anything, we should try to reduce the difference, not increase it.


I Don´t think we have nearly 20 categories at each 3D like on wprime, hwbotprime and so on which you grab globals. There is no 5,8,10,12 etc etc sli or cf. I have no big problem with wr points awarded for full out, my main concern is the flood of global UPP and the flood of TPP generated by the core categories.

P.S. And why there are no wr points for most popular 2d, spi, and 2 cinebenches get these is mystery I still have to solve :p

Germany der8auer says:

Let's QUOTE Massman to answer this question [QUOTE=Massman]WR points were created to give points for the multi-threaded benchmark applications because the global points were too low. That's because the points are graded based on the amount of competition in a ranking. In SuperPI 1M, the world record already gets the highest points. In 3DMark Vantage, for example, without the WR points the world record would not get even close to the highest points.[/QUOTE]

websmile says:

On vantage, for single ranking you get nearly as much globals as on spi, but you also can get globals for 2x,3x and 4x. You have four cards and go for points, you will bench all 4 categories and get lots of them, plus maybe wr. On multi-Core benches, it is even worse, because of missing core cap to, for example, retail available end customer count of eight, there are about 15 times globals available with sky being limit, lots of these benchmarks are also eligible for wr points at full out. on Spi, the benchmark with most submissions overall, you are eligible for globals excatly 2 times, for 32m and 1M, no wr points. Where is the balance? Just my two cents on this

P.S. I know that you get low globals on unusual core counts, but mass of global ponts for 15+ categories still is biiig + wr points on top ;)

Bulgaria OLDcomer says:

Wasting money for multiple graphics cards or wasting money to bin CPUs. Make your choice.
Let's don't forget about the formula for league points.
League points = top 15 (global+wr) + top 20 hardware + competition points

websmile says:

Indeed, but also don´t forget that global points also generate lots of global TPP... there is no cap for that iirc

Norway knopflerbruce says:

websmile said: I Don´t think we have nearly 20 categories at each 3D like on wprime, hwbotprime and so on which you grab globals. There is no 5,8,10,12 etc etc sli or cf. I have no big problem with wr points awarded for full out, my main concern is the flood of global UPP and the flood of TPP generated by the core categories.

P.S. And why there are no wr points for most popular 2d, spi, and 2 cinebenches get these is mystery I still have to solve :p


But then again, the "weird # of core" categories are worth very little in terms of global points. It doesn't really matter if we have globals for 32 core rigs if the leader gets ~15 global points.

Strunkenbold says:

knopflerbruce said:
CB11 and CB15 are not identical, http://www.techpowerup.com/191833/maxon-cinebench-r15-posted.html


Reading from that link says nothing more we already know. Better threading support, better score system, 64bit only and need of SSE3 atleast. All based on an updated Cinema 4D engine. Other sources say also that AVX is not supported. But in the end its rendering the (almost) same scene and uses all of the power that your cpu has to offer + some ram skaling. This looks more like an update and thus handling out globals for both benchmarks is a little bit to much.


Also, at the moment we have WR points for 11 3D benchmarks, and only 5 2D. If anything, we should try to reduce the difference, not increase it.


I probably have a little bit different understanding of this as I always thought that benching 3D is a lot harder job which requires much more skill to achieve Top Scores. I was in the believe that awarding WR points awards this effort. Running a server isnt this worthy to my sense. Also I didnt say kick all, I just said some of them. And on my opinion HWBot Prime, as the inhouse bench and Cinebench R15 should be the one to stay.
Also remember that Aquamark has also has WR points enabled and can be called nowadays as a CPU bench.

United States Mr.Scott says:

Strunkenbold said:



Cinebench R15 should be the one to stay.

I would say 11.5 is the one to stay because it runs on 32 and 64 bit and without SSE3. That way you can bench the older platforms also. ;)

GENiEBEN says:

Mr.Scott said: I would say 11.5 is the one to stay because it runs on 32 and 64 bit and without SSE3. That way you can bench the older platforms also. ;)


Agree.

K404 says:

I say we scrap all points for everything, then we'll find out who benches because they enjoy it :D

United States Mr.Scott says:

K404 said: I say we scrap all points for everything, then we'll find out who benches because they enjoy it :D

That would be me. ;)

K404 says:

Me too :D Zero things about my benching "schedule" would change :)

Strunkenbold says:

Mr.Scott said: I would say 11.5 is the one to stay because it runs on 32 and 64 bit and without SSE3. That way you can bench the older platforms also. ;)


I dont want to eliminate hw points for 11.5. You can still bench this with your old Athlon's, Pentiums and whatever but you dont want to tell me that want to compete with this old stuff for global points. ;)
Also the better scoring system gives huge improvement in the rankings as I currently see lots of the same scores. All in all I see that R15 is simply more futureproof but again this just my personal opinion and decisions need to made by the staff.

Strunkenbold says:

K404 said: Me too :D Zero things about my benching "schedule" would change :)


hehe, mine dont either. It just scares me a little bit how I can have more global points with some 40€ cpus than someone who spends 1000€+ on a rather medium 3D Bench rig. For me it just looks like that balancing has gone somewhere in the wrong direction.

United States Mr.Scott says:

Strunkenbold said: I dont want to eliminate hw points for 11.5. You can still bench this with your old Athlon's, Pentiums and whatever but you dont want to tell me that want to compete with this old stuff for global points. ;)
Also the better scoring system gives huge improvement in the rankings as I currently see lots of the same scores. All in all I see that R15 is simply more futureproof but again this just my personal opinion and decisions need to made by the staff.

Globals are a non factor on the old stuff, agreed. :)

Belgium Massman says:

I kind of hope the WR points for Cinebench inspires some people to try more than water cooling on the 4P systems :) :)

Puerto Rico chispy says:

The more benchmarks with hardware points , global points and and world records the better , I am all up for it. I'm getting hooked on Catzilla and Cinebench R15, Catzilla is really hard to run at high clocks on VGAs specially 1440P , It's the new Firemark Extreme but harder for VGAs , if your system is not 100% stable be it cpu , memories , all VGAs , it will hang or crash :p, rather difficult benchmark on multi GPU systems and it scales properly with some fine tuning in some specific parts of your benching rig (blank) , do some testing guys and you will find out :D , Big thumbs up for Massman and hwbot for this great decision , enjoy it guys just enjoy it ! Keep adding benchmarks and points , the more the better ! This will lure new guys to the overclocking scene , that is my opinion on this subject matter , i'm happy about it.


Kind Regards: Angelo.

Norway knopflerbruce says:

Massman said: I kind of hope the WR points for Cinebench inspires some people to try more than water cooling on the 4P systems :) :)


I've tried briefly, but you need special pots because the G34 IHS is so much bigger than the base of, say F1EE. I also wonder if the mobos don't like LN2 showers :p I had absolutely no luck, sometimes the board wouldn't post at all...

The people who don't think these are hard to run don't know what they're talking about. It really is the same thing as running 4-way CF from what I've seen, lots of things that can go wrong - some stuff not working, apparently for no reason etc.

Canada Vinster says:

knopflerbruce said: I've tried briefly, but you need special pots because the G34 IHS is so much bigger than the base of, say F1EE. I also wonder if the mobos don't like LN2 showers :p I had absolutely no luck, sometimes the board wouldn't post at all...

The people who don't think these are hard to run don't know what they're talking about. It really is the same thing as running 4-way CF from what I've seen, lots of things that can go wrong - some stuff not working, apparently for no reason etc.


Really it's 4 MB's in one right, I've never played with anymore than 2P systems and I found OC'ing on them nearly impossible.

Vin

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