219 pts PURE

Kicked off!

Just as a reminder, if you are planning on competing you need to upload one score per team to register for the competition before July 1st. Also, you have to join a Pro OC team if you have not done that yet.

I'll post a news item up later this week once the Pro OC Ranking page is fully finished (and not just at 0pts)

Massman...

First Pro Cup has very few people with chances in "Full Out" stage...

Only 2 teams could compete (there are no cards to compete against 4 Titans)...

Why don't change to 1 card... so... greatly increase the competitiveness...

Regardless I don't mind IGP and mainstream, I believe its not a problem, but Full Out will kill the chances of the most of the Teams...

Further... I believe the competition reason is more to measure the quality of the overclockers and also the teams... than to see who can use 4 cards...

I hope you understand...

Good lucky to all competitors... looking forward your scores.

Massman...

First Pro Cup has very few people with chances in "Full Out" stage...

Only 2 teams could compete (there are no cards to compete against 4 Titans)...

Why don't change to 1 card... so... greatly increase the competitiveness...

Regardless I don't mind IGP and mainstream, I believe its not a problem, but Full Out will kill the chances of the most of the Teams...

Further... I believe the competition reason is more to measure the quality of the overclockers and also the teams... than to see who can use 4 cards...

I hope you understand...

Good lucky to all competitors... looking forward your scores.

I agree, it was also overly heavily weighted on the gpu side by having single and all out.

It's the "Pro" cup, so go big or go home. :celebration:

1 stage out of 5 with an insane rig should be no problem when you have 4-5 guys on a team.

As far as weighting, GPU and CPU were equal in the last round. 2x GPU benches, 2x CPU benches, 1st place in both was worth 50 points.

4x gpu is okay... Cinebench with multi cpu - OUT!!!! Multi cpu doesn't bring new "blood" from gamers to extreme overclockings, 4x gpu yes because it's technology for gamers... And good Xeons or AMD chips in retail distribution cost 2-3K USD per one...

It's the "Pro" cup, so go big or go home. :celebration:

 

For you... to be "big" is to run 4 Titans at 1000 Mhz? ("so go big or go home")

I don't think the same...

When 4 x HD 7970 was more affordable, more people and core competitiveness in Full Out...

Also... regardless have 4 or 5 guys in each team, only Kingpin you could ran Titan in 4 way... in amount all teams... so... do you think is competitive?

Don't let the competition to be easier just because you have the weapons... competition must measure quality of the overclocker and not his hardware.

Too bad that you are only as good as your hardware allows in most cases

For you... to be "big" is to run 4 Titans at 1000 Mhz? ("so go big or go home")

I don't think the same...

When 4 x HD 7970 was more affordable, more people and core competitiveness in Full Out...

Also... regardless have 4 or 5 guys in each team, only Kingpin you could ran Titan in 4 way... in amount all teams... so... do you think is competitive?

Don't let the competition to be easier just because you have the weapons... competition must measure quality of the overclocker and not his hardware.

I don't have the Titans anymore, and running the 4 Titans I did have at 1000 was enough for 2nd place in that stage, which was our target.

For you... to be "big" is to run 4 Titans at 1000 Mhz? ("so go big or go home")

I don't think the same...

When 4 x HD 7970 was more affordable, more people and core competitiveness in Full Out...

Also... regardless have 4 or 5 guys in each team, only Kingpin you could ran Titan in 4 way... in amount all teams... so... do you think is competitive?

Don't let the competition to be easier just because you have the weapons... competition must measure quality of the overclocker and not his hardware.

Is there a day on the calendar that you don't whine about something? Geez! that's getting old...

Is there a day on the calendar that you don't whine about something? Geez! that's getting old...

To bring my opinion also to try to have a more competitive Pro Cup, can not be considered "whine"... so... let your opinion that I will respect, but please don't flame.

Dude does have a point, though.

Bare minimum $4000 of GPUs to compete. That'll cut the field down a bit.

Cinebench killed the field more.

Moreover - GTX 780 can be very competitive, cause it's 4-Way, mostly CPU limited. And those are about 2500 USD, something like that.

We have to remember that it';s PRO Cup - the idea was to make it sponsored, so vendors would deliver GPUs for it...

Cinebench killed the field more.

 

Moreover - GTX 780 can be very competitive, cause it's 4-Way, mostly CPU limited. And those are about 2500 USD, something like that.

 

We have to remember that it';s PRO Cup - the idea was to make it sponsored, so vendors would deliver GPUs for it...

Yeah, let me know when that happens.

Cinebench killed the field more.

 

Moreover - GTX 780 can be very competitive, cause it's 4-Way, mostly CPU limited. And those are about 2500 USD, something like that.

 

We have to remember that it';s PRO Cup - the idea was to make it sponsored, so vendors would deliver GPUs for it...

Nope. 4x titans cost more than a 4 server chips + mobo. I think the latter can be had for about $2k, so half the price. That includes a brand new motherboard, too - so in terms of cost, cinebench didn't kill the field. It's just that most people prefer to buy 4 GPUs rather than 4 CPUs regardless of cost.

Nope. 4x titans cost more than a 4 server chips + mobo. I think the latter can be had for about $2k, so half the price. That includes a brand new motherboard, too - so in terms of cost, cinebench didn't kill the field. It's just that most people prefer to buy 4 GPUs rather than 4 CPUs regardless of cost.

Yes, if you are buying from ebay all over the world, have friends to get them shipped and so on, you can buy those CPUs not so expensive + board. Of course you were looking for ES cpus cause those have unlocked multi. You know that I admired your work a lot and what you did is fantastic. But in my opinion it's not PRO CUP material. Xeons and Opterons (I am talking about those real, which can work in multi CPU configuration) are not desktop material, but servers - it's PRO market, which is very expensive. For us, overclockers and gamers we have our "K" series, "Extreme Edition" or "Black Edition". Moreover, board vendors don't produce server OC boards. It's not this market.

Don't get me wrong but from what I remember PRO CUP was created to make OC community stronger, to get some new fresh blood, but now I think it's more and more getting old ocers away. Seriously, if there are some cinebench or wprime stages for multi CPU configurations - I am out, cause it's not my market and I can't fight with it and here is why:

- I am mostly buying hw in Poland, from warehouses or shops, I checked and cheapest Opteron 16C cost 1000 euro here. Even if I had $ to buy platform for one stage (let's count about 6K euro with ECC mems, board, LN2), what would I do with it later? Try to sell, okay... who will buy it in Poland? I am not company, and only PRO companies buy such HW with an invoice, I am private user, I can't give invoices... so in the best case I could sell it after many weeks (or months) of waiting for 1/3 price? It's impossible to do for me.

- I don't see connection of server parts in overclocking/gaming market, so I am not interested in it

- Vendors which I am interested in (Asrock, Asus, MSI, GB, EVGA and so on) mostly don't make boards for multi cpu for LN2, with OC functions and so on and they don't care about it, cause it's a different market.

- if there are so "crazy" and expensive setups, I don't see any new fresh blood joining in OC world, I see the opposite- old users will say "that's too much"

I can accept multi CPU if I can mount normal CPUs, like 4770K, 3770K, 3930K and so on, normal cpus which are not so expensive (in fact most of us buys per few cpus for binning), not server expensive staff. But there is a reason why Intel and AMD doesn't support it. They want to make more $ from server/PRO market and that's their right. I don't see a point to go into this area where we are in desktop/gamers/enthusiast market...

In fact it's the same as creating some Povray or something "PRO" a benchmark, were Quadro/FireGL are much stronger than normal gpus. Let's do PRO CUP on this... where Titan cost 1K USD and Quadro based on GK110 cost 2-3 times more. I don't see any sense or point of this.

If we want to make OC community grow - we have to look into gaming society, which in fact is the group who mostly uses OC for 24/7 and are more close to us than some server companies/enthusiasts. 4x Titan is hard for wallet, but 4x 780 GTX is not that tragic and it's easy to sell such gpus after PRO Cup stage and it can make interest among gamers. Multi CPU for sure won't do that.

I am totally for banning multi cpus stages. It's not our market. From one hand we are made to OC "mainstream" rig (3DMark06 stage - I don't mean that I am against it, hw isn't that expensive and easy to sell after OC) but on the other hand we will be made to bench rigs unavailable for us to buy in retail shops (price) and which have almost nothing in common with OC.

I am totally for banning multi cpus stages. It's not our market. From one hand we are made to OC "mainstream" rig (3DMark06 stage - I don't mean that I am against it, hw isn't that expensive and easy to sell after OC) but on the other hand we will be made to bench rigs unavailable for us to buy in retail shops (price) and which have almost nothing in common with OC.

I agree, completely.

Multiple titans at least is a reasonable thing to expect a top5 person to have for binning purposes. A quad 16 core server setup? Less so.

It turns "PRO OC CUP" into "Bribe the boss so I can run WPrime on the server at stock so I can get at least a few point in that stage", doesn't seem like the goal to me.

Yes, if you are buying from ebay all over the world, have friends to get them shipped and so on, you can buy those CPUs not so expensive + board. Of course you were looking for ES cpus cause those have unlocked multi. You know that I admired your work a lot and what you did is fantastic. But in my opinion it's not PRO CUP material. Xeons and Opterons (I am talking about those real, which can work in multi CPU configuration) are not desktop material, but servers - it's PRO market, which is very expensive. For us, overclockers and gamers we have our "K" series, "Extreme Edition" or "Black Edition". Moreover, board vendors don't produce server OC boards. It's not this market.

 

Don't get me wrong but from what I remember PRO CUP was created to make OC community stronger, to get some new fresh blood, but now I think it's more and more getting old ocers away. Seriously, if there are some cinebench or wprime stages for multi CPU configurations - I am out, cause it's not my market and I can't fight with it and here is why:

 

- I am mostly buying hw in Poland, from warehouses or shops, I checked and cheapest Opteron 16C cost 1000 euro here. Even if I had $ to buy platform for one stage (let's count about 6K euro with ECC mems, board, LN2), what would I do with it later? Try to sell, okay... who will buy it in Poland? I am not company, and only PRO companies buy such HW with an invoice, I am private user, I can't give invoices... so in the best case I could sell it after many weeks (or months) of waiting for 1/3 price? It's impossible to do for me.

 

- I don't see connection of server parts in overclocking/gaming market, so I am not interested in it

 

- Vendors which I am interested in (Asrock, Asus, MSI, GB, EVGA and so on) mostly don't make boards for multi cpu for LN2, with OC functions and so on and they don't care about it, cause it's a different market.

 

- if there are so "crazy" and expensive setups, I don't see any new fresh blood joining in OC world, I see the opposite- old users will say "that's too much"

 

I can accept multi CPU if I can mount normal CPUs, like 4770K, 3770K, 3930K and so on, normal cpus which are not so expensive (in fact most of us buys per few cpus for binning), not server expensive staff. But there is a reason why Intel and AMD doesn't support it. They want to make more $ from server/PRO market and that's their right. I don't see a point to go into this area where we are in desktop/gamers/enthusiast market...

 

In fact it's the same as creating some Povray or something "PRO" a benchmark, were Quadro/FireGL are much stronger than normal gpus. Let's do PRO CUP on this... where Titan cost 1K USD and Quadro based on GK110 cost 2-3 times more. I don't see any sense or point of this.

 

If we want to make OC community grow - we have to look into gaming society, which in fact is the group who mostly uses OC for 24/7 and are more close to us than some server companies/enthusiasts. 4x Titan is hard for wallet, but 4x 780 GTX is not that tragic and it's easy to sell such gpus after PRO Cup stage and it can make interest among gamers. Multi CPU for sure won't do that.

I am totally for banning multi cpus stages. It's not our market. From one hand we are made to OC "mainstream" rig (3DMark06 stage - I don't mean that I am against it, hw isn't that expensive and easy to sell after OC) but on the other hand we will be made to bench rigs unavailable for us to buy in retail shops (price) and which have almost nothing in common with OC.

I buy the mobos in regular stores (wiredzone and superbiiz). CPUs... yes, ebay - and usually from sellers who ship worldwide. Memory isn't hard either, I use 16 random 2gb sticks (no ECC, we're talking PSC sticks that I've bought on ebay). Cheap and easy to find everywhere. 1gb sticks are fine, too, got 16 1gb 1333mhz samsungs running in a different setup as we speak. The fact that the server boards don't really support overclocking is only partially true, there is a modded BIOS for one of the supermicro boards allowing HTT adjustments. For mp you've got software. They're fragile, though... so prepping it for benching is time consuming (I must've spent 10+ hours with the dremel to cut all those brackets and sinks). The only real difference between these boards and a dual socket workstation (w/server chips) one (SR-2, SR-X, Z7S WS and so on) is that they're designed to handle overclocking - but when did that ever become a limitation in this game? I'd say that the Titans are equally designed for overclocking as the SM 4P boards... it doesn't take much to kill a Titan either. But: SR2 and SkullTrail were accepted earlier, and if the E5-2xxx series had at least one model with an unlocked MP we'd see people running Ln2 on those like crazy - just like we did with SR2 earlier. Whether the mobo maker is Supermicro/Tyan or EVGA/ASUS doesn't really matter.

You could probably sell the server to some folder/WCG user or whatever - they're worth the money if you're into those things. 1/3 of the price? No way. You'd probably get close to the same percentage loss as with Titans. I don't see 4P setups go for close to nothing in folding forums. A bit cheaper because they're sold between folders, but that's reasonable - like if I'd get a nice deal on a decent 4770k from a teammate.

To sum it up: servers are a tad more difficult to sell, but there is a market for such things. Overclockability through BIOS and software exists. The platform is cheaper than the high end GPU ones, but harder to find locally. All in all, I do not see any reason to exclude these from the Pro cup. Plus, it's just one out of 5 stages. It's enough that one teammate can do the benching. If the total costs are too high, maybe we should not do both multi-GPU and multi CPU in the same cup... or none at all (no multi-CPU = no multi-GPU for me, either you accept the cost and risk of running these "insane" setups, or you don't).

I agree, completely.

 

Multiple titans at least is a reasonable thing to expect a top5 person to have for binning purposes. A quad 16 core server setup? Less so.

It turns "PRO OC CUP" into "Bribe the boss so I can run WPrime on the server at stock so I can get at least a few point in that stage", doesn't seem like the goal to me.

You'll end up getting the same situation with 4x Titans... get the cards, run them at stock speed, and grab a bunch of points. Only two setups weith Ln2'd GPUs this time. My 4P setup was at least run at sub-ambient temps, and I only got 3rd in the Cinebench stage (not much below ambient, but still), and if I got the VID adjustments to work I probably would've posted an LN2 4P score, too. I ran it at minus 20 or so for an hour without success:p

You'll end up getting the same situation with 4x Titans... get the cards, run them at stock speed, and grab a bunch of points. Only two setups weith Ln2'd GPUs this time. My 4P setup was at least run at sub-ambient temps, and I only got 3rd in the Cinebench stage (not much below ambient, but still), and if I got the VID adjustments to work I probably would've posted an LN2 4P score, too. I ran it at minus 20 or so for an hour without success:p

Yeah I'm opposed to them, too

I buy the mobos in regular stores (wiredzone and superbiiz). CPUs... yes, ebay - and usually from sellers who ship worldwide. Memory isn't hard either, I use 16 random 2gb sticks (no ECC, we're talking PSC sticks that I've bought on ebay). Cheap and easy to find everywhere. 1gb sticks are fine, too, got 16 1gb 1333mhz samsungs running in a different setup as we speak. The fact that the server boards don't really support overclocking is only partially true, there is a modded BIOS for one of the supermicro boards allowing HTT adjustments. For mp you've got software. They're fragile, though... so prepping it for benching is time consuming (I must've spent 10+ hours with the dremel to cut all those brackets and sinks). The only real difference between these boards and a dual socket workstation (w/server chips) one (SR-2, SR-X, Z7S WS and so on) is that they're designed to handle overclocking - but when did that ever become a limitation in this game? I'd say that the Titans are equally designed for overclocking as the SM 4P boards... it doesn't take much to kill a Titan either. But: SR2 and SkullTrail were accepted earlier, and if the E5-2xxx series had at least one model with an unlocked MP we'd see people running Ln2 on those like crazy - just like we did with SR2 earlier. Whether the mobo maker is Supermicro/Tyan or EVGA/ASUS doesn't really matter.

 

You could probably sell the server to some folder/WCG user or whatever - they're worth the money if you're into those things. 1/3 of the price? No way. You'd probably get close to the same percentage loss as with Titans. I don't see 4P setups go for close to nothing in folding forums. A bit cheaper because they're sold between folders, but that's reasonable - like if I'd get a nice deal on a decent 4770k from a teammate.

 

To sum it up: servers are a tad more difficult to sell, but there is a market for such things. Overclockability through BIOS and software exists. The platform is cheaper than the high end GPU ones, but harder to find locally. All in all, I do not see any reason to exclude these from the Pro cup. Plus, it's just one out of 5 stages. It's enough that one teammate can do the benching. If the total costs are too high, maybe we should not do both multi-GPU and multi CPU in the same cup... or none at all (no multi-CPU = no multi-GPU for me, either you accept the cost and risk of running these "insane" setups, or you don't).

I understand your point, but still I claim it's not suitable for PRO CUP and should be banned. All server parts in Poland are for special order, are too expensive for normal users. No one in Poland is folding, so only sell to foreign country... it's not so easy as it should. And I am sure that in other countries it's also the same like this (not talking about USA or Taiwan)

Yap 4x Titan is not also the cheapest and most easy setup (if you want to do it correctly), but as you saw in last PRO Cup 4x 7970 were close to Titans. You didn't have to spend money on 4x Titans, this time there is cheaper option - 780 GTX, and soon non refs should be available. It's still expensive but much more sensible than multi cpu, cause few guys before PRO CUP liked to push 4x gpu setups for WRs and so on... from few generations.

Sorry... but I can not understand there are no single GPU stage... single GPU is to all... and hardest way ever, cause you need to extract the max of the card...

Finally, ES Haswells are allowed?

I thought ES was always allowed? This is the Pro League, after all?

No... it's PRO Cup which is supposed to have some prices and we have to buy dedicated hw for stages, it is a show "which should bring new blood in OC Community". ES Haswells are much much better (QE6H) than retails and can't be bought, so I vote to ban them, I don't see those ES Haswells to bring more blood in OC Community, I see the opposite.

No... it's PRO Cup which is supposed to have some prices and we have to buy dedicated hw for stages, it is a show "which should bring new blood in OC Community". ES Haswells are much much better (QE6H) than retails and can't be bought, so I vote to ban them, I don't see those ES Haswells to bring more blood in OC Community, I see the opposite.

How does your ES clock?

I am not sponsored OCer, I don't get ES cpus, I even can't buy them...

From what I recall, anything "pro" means ES = allowed. This place is also the only one where those chips can be used - you're in enthusiast or Xtreme league, they're not allowed. We cannot ban those from ALL competitions.

Word PRO does not directly mean that ES samples are allowed.

In old PRO OC league ES samples were allowed as that was meant to be completely open field for world records without limitations.

Now we have this best league ever which should bring new people in to overclocking and be more interesting than nothing else before, so is ES really the best way to go?

Pro gaming is huge nowadays and there is several reasons for that. OC can never compete with it, that is a fact. Idea of this league was to make overclocking more popular and interesting or make it as large as possible in other words. If you allow ES samples it would be same as pro gamer could use godmode in games while competing "hey, there are no walls at all".

I have been talking this same kind of league crap year after year in here and it never makes any difference

I dont have an ES and cant find one aswell.

100000000% agreed SF3D.

I still not understand why Hwbot can accept something that is not available to all... just is UNFAIR... We need to give same conditions to everybody... If ES is not allowed in MOA, GOOC, general competitions, need to be banned.

This is a old discussion... so... let the privilege guys that get free ES samples compete and take advantage... And... let stupid ideas that ES is the same than Retail ... those kind of things let me wish to leave the league.

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=247632#post247632

ES aren't any more or less available to me than Titans or EPowers are. Ban them too?

Ban the 780 as well, as it requires an EPower, which cannot currently be bought.

So....here we are, back once again in the situation of complaining because ES is better than retail and we want to push them out of overclocking because "normal people" cannot get them.

One day, maybe people will start listening to me, but I am going to ask a question (maybe two) and I want (interested) people to answer, truthfully and think BEYOND their own situation and think about more people than just themselves and their own rankings. That condition is VERY important.

Do we want to see the best scores possible with the best hardware that exists, or do we only want to see the best scores if we think we can beat them?

I honestly see early Haswell ES as no bigger problem than ePower. I have neither, but I don't mind that some people do, because it shows us the best possible scores.

I'd rather ban ePower than ban cherry ES. The best CPU installs in a board just as easily as a bunny one.

For the top, "Pro" ranking: Best scores possible. I see no reason for anything short of that.

There are divisions for "Best I Can Possibly Beat" after all, like the one I inhabit generally.

Let's jump in this thread and say you also have to vote beta bioses out because those are technically engineering versions too.

Single GPU has been transformed into "mainstream dual gpu" - cost for VGA should be about the same.

ES Haswell is of course more than allowed.

We need to ban the NDA OC Guru, AB, Precision, and so on too of course

Let's jump in this thread and say you also have to vote beta bioses out because those are technically engineering versions too.

 

Single GPU has been transformed into "mainstream dual gpu" - cost for VGA should be about the same.

 

ES Haswell is of course more than allowed.

Exactly. And:

The main problem seems to be the availability, not the beta/not released part. In other words: we have to ban rare retail hardware, too. If you're looking for Corsair GTX series modules... good luck! I seriously believe you have a better chance finding Haswell ES than some of those models:p I bet this applies to most really high binned kits today. When hardware is produced in a very low quantity, they're not available to anyone. Even ASUS Ares or Mars series are EXTREMELY difficult to get hold of, so in reality we'd have to demand like a minimum of... 5000-10000 samples before we can allow those parts - if the goal is that everyone interested in competing has a fair chance at getting at least one sample, assuming they have the $$$ to begin with.

Personally I don't care if these things are included in the Pro Cup or not - but they should have a place here, and then we need a league/cup where those rare ones are allowed.

We need to ban the NDA OC Guru, AB, Precision, and so on too of course

Yes, and I'm pretty sure that those who complain about ES and not these "secret" software releases have access to at least one of the utilities:p

To compare EPower... that needs effort and risk to kill a videocard to a CPU that is only to put into the socket is totally non sense...

Also to compare software with hardware.

If is different, why its not allowed in MOA, AOOC, GOOC???.... is not about to be better or no... is about to not be available to all.

If in the competitions:

Not allowed: hardware sharing, engineering samples, Lucid Virtu MVP and hardware that is not commercially available at the beginning of the competition.

Shoud be now allowed ... that's my opinion, and I did not disrespect nobody, only bring a question I believe is important and must be changed.

"is not about to be better or no... is about to not be available to all." - this is the key point - it applies to certain retail parts, and software. Why just limit the discussion to ES CPUs?

100000000% agreed SF3D.

I still not understand why Hwbot can accept something that is not available to all... just is UNFAIR... We need to give same conditions to everybody... If ES is not allowed in MOA, GOOC, general competitions, need to be banned.

This is a old discussion... so... let the privilege guys that get free ES samples compete and take advantage... And... let stupid ideas that ES is the same than Retail ... those kind of things let me wish to leave the league.

 

http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=247632#post247632

I still don't understand why you can't accept that life isn't fair. You complain about every single thing that doesn't work in you favor. Then when you continue to post impressive results, despite all odds being against you, you make a sob thread to show how you persevered adversity.

I still don't understand why you can't accept that life isn't fair. You complain about every single thing that doesn't work in you favor. Then when you continue to post impressive results, despite all odds being against you, you make a sob thread to show how you persevered adversity.

Mate...

I am not complaining... this issue was not bring by me (just read posts before mine).

Also I've been working lots of times without ES parts...

I am just talking that ES hardware is not available for all... also... is not allowed in competitions (for sure... AOOC, MOA, GOOC and so on have their reasons)... so.. I believe it shoud be not allowed.

About this: "Then when you continue to post impressive results"... never used ES parts in that results.

To be more clear and logic, if its not allowed to the main competitions, must be not in Pro Cup (in my point of view)

I did not miss education or be rude with nobody.

"is not about to be better or no... is about to not be available to all." - this is the key point - it applies to certain retail parts, and software. Why just limit the discussion to ES CPUs?

Because anyone can get Bioses, Afterburner Extreme and so on... and it's shared also in Hwbot.... also because it is free for all... nobody need to pay for a Bios, afterburner, precision and so on.

I never said that you are rude or disrespectful. You may not see it, but I believe that many people perceive your posts as whining. Whenever there is a rule or competition that does not benefit you, you always try to have rules changed so that they do. In the end, whether or not the rules changed, you never disappoint. All of your results end up being top notch. Not so long ago, you were saying something about how difficult it is to get titans in brazil and next thing you know, you had a titan. You don't like es chips because you can't get them. I can't get them either, but I'm not complaining. The idea of "pro" was for those who work for vendors and have unlimited access. You chose to compete against the best, despite not having the same manufacturer support. Now you want rules to change because they don't work in your favor. You signed up for this. You knew what you were getting into.

In this thread alone you have questioned the all out stages, using xeons for cinebench, and now es chips.

Man... regardless to be or not to be allowed, I always will bench what I want.

If I don't like or don't agreed Xeons Multi CPUs... simply, did not benched them.... and you can be sure the most of overclockers did not agreed the same.

The Titans... How long did you not see any result of me with a Titan?

The only complaining about Titan is about it highest price...

The thing you told I am complaining, is because I don't understand why there are no single GPU stage (that is present in ALL competitions)...but Full Out Titans.

The ES chip issue was not bring by me... and I do not open a thread complaining but as a pool...

I told in the thread that I must be wrong... and would like to see how the most of overclockers are thinking.

The way you expose, is shows a non real point of view that it's not whining, but talk about a fact that important overclockers are talking about... even before my post.

I am leaving this topic.... this is no more my question... I bring what I thing is more fair and more competitive to all....

I don't mind... you can keep this way you think is better... and let the things keep the same (... the reason hwbot removed the Pro Overclockers ranking).

Best wishes for all.

@Mikecdm

FYI, I don't ask to go to Pro League after they removed the ranking...

I was forced to do it... I believe was been better to me, to keep in XOC League.

Anybody can get software? I've had exactly zero luck in finding the proper software for the SOC cards. Gigabyte isn't very forthcoming on that one.

Software is easy, you can always ask some good guys for a copy About SOC - depends from the series, most of SOC need really crazy vmods because of shit controllers used, or only ES cards have software voltage control (like SOC 5870 - additional Winbond controller for VGPU). SOC is different league - GB is not doing anything to make those interesting for OCers in my opinion. But there are Lightnings, there are Matrix, DCU2...

ES cpus are something different than Epowers, Epowers can be bought, soon new batch will be for sale. Moreover, if you have enough knowledge, you can create yourself separate PWM from some dead GPU or even something like Hipro5 created, ddr maximizer We can't make our own CPU.

I have nothing agaist ES if they are like retails, but not GT A0 history again. Show us some good retails and everyone will stop whining or if there aren't any, ban ES

Software is easy, you can always ask some good guys for a copy

 

ES cpus are something different than Epowers, Epowers can be bought, soon new batch will be for sale. Moreover, if you have enough knowledge, you can create yourself separate PWM from some dead GPU or even something like Hipro5 created, ddr maximizer We can't make our own CPU.

 

I have nothing agaist ES if they are like retails, but not GT A0 history again. Show us some good retails and everyone will stop whining or if there aren't any, ban ES

Is it a bit weird that you are ok with allowing the thing that you have access to and can use, but want to ban the thing you don't have?

Is it a bit weird that you are ok with allowing the thing that you have access to and can use, but want to ban the thing you don't have?

Epowers could be bought from EVGA EU Store some time ago, it was the fault of OCers who hadn't bought it cause they preferred Lightnings. Those were retails. Moreover, EVGA soon will sell new batch of much more powerful and those also will be in EU shop from what I know. It's not the same. Moreover, in GPUs you can always try to play with Lightnings (like 780 GTX which maybe can reach Titan), so it's not that you have totally no choice. Second thing is that for Epower... you need to have skills, courage and will to mod the card, total noob won't do it. With CPU you only put it in the socket. Epower is some kind of hardmod, we can't ban hardmods cause those are impossible to track. We can't mod CPU to be a better... But we can track in CPU-Z if CPU is an ES or not.

I only want to see some good results with retails, and if they are okay, ES are fine for me. I know that there are guys who tested 100+ retails now...

Both come down to money, nothing else.

If I offer enough money, I will get my cherry ES and that will get me better global scores in 3D01/05/06/AM3 than 100 ePowers. Plus, as long as I don't kill it, I can sell it and get most of my money back. No-one is gonna say that about a global GPU that's been e-Powered, or zombie'd in any way.

You are completely right, we can't track voltmods. a simple VR and two wires or.... Tin-level Zombie. I think a 4th league would help solve this, but HWB DO need more rules & guidelines for Pro Cup (IMO)

If you have any contacts where I can buy those ES cpus... send me a PM

About hardmods there is a second side - the ability of vmods distinguish now ocers, that's my opinion. There are still some guys in top which can't solder a simple trimpot Cause with boards and Lightnings everything is sometimes just too easy. I am not telling that's it's bad. That's my thought though. Let's be honest, how many guys modded heavily 7970 ref card for MOA 2012 or 2013?

Because anyone can get Bioses, Afterburner Extreme and so on... and it's shared also in Hwbot.... also because it is free for all... nobody need to pay for a Bios, afterburner, precision and so on.

I'm pretty sure that alot of software is never posted here due to NDA:D

If you have any contacts where I can buy those ES cpus... send me a PM

 

About hardmods there is a second side - the ability of vmods distinguish now ocers, that's my opinion. There are still some guys in top which can't solder a simple trimpot Cause with boards and Lightnings everything is sometimes just too easy. I am not telling that's it's bad. That's my thought though. Let's be honest, how many guys modded heavily 7970 ref card for MOA 2012 or 2013?

There's another side to this story - what about unreleased mods that require access to NDA white papers They must be banned, too, as they're based on documents not available to the public.

The list of things we must ban is increasing...

The list of things we must ban is increasing...

Ln2 is not available to some, better add that to the list.

Ln2 is not available to some, better add that to the list.

Really? I thought Ln2 was available in most countries, if not all.

Really? I thought Ln2 was available in most countries, if not all.

But in some locations it's $0.50/L and in some it's $6.00/L. That's TOTALLY NOT FAIR AND SHOULD BE BANNED!

/sarcasm

I work 70hrs a week, so I can only bench a couple hours a week, others who don't work as much have a lot more time to bench, totally unfair, let's ban work too...!

Some countries have lower ambient temperatures throughout the year. Let's ban Northern Europe, Northern Russian regions and Northern Canada!

Some countries have lower ambient temperatures throughout the year. Let's ban Northern Europe, Northern Russian regions and Northern Canada!

I like how no one brings the issue of annoying spouses disturbing a session. Who do we ban?

Haha..what the F.. is wrong with this scene? We have new league which should bring new people in to OC.. how many new persons have joined and are in the game seriously. How much have HWbot visitor amounts raised and how many more facebook posts there are about top overclocking scores.

Yes, you all know the answer. This hobby is so tiny that this kind of league is just a waste of time for overclockers.

This new league might be good thing someday when completely new generation of overclockers have grown in to it. For me this whole thing is just a huge pile of crap and I think this was it.

You know I always listen to your comments Petri and think about them, but here's a question (that also explains why I moved, despite having no vendor support):

"What do any of us have to lose by giving it a chance?"

I like how no one brings the issue of annoying spouses disturbing a session. Who do we ban?

well duh, the spouse! out of the benchroom I say, out!

But in some locations it's $0.50/L and in some it's $6.00/L. That's TOTALLY NOT FAIR AND SHOULD BE BANNED!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/sarcasm

It's $10 here... except for those lucky enough to get it elsewhere, like Uni. Great, eh? Everyone envy us for our wages, but it doesnt help when something costs 20 times as much as in the US:D Norway must be the most expensive LN2 country, even if you adjust for the fat oil wallets we have.

well duh, the spouse! out of the benchroom I say, out!

Spouse... in the benching room?!? Unless you're stupid and bench in the kitchen that's a disgrace!

I know some chicks that can give you some inspiration to raise the voltage!

SF3D speaks the truth tho. I would have moved to the old pro league but now will stay in normal one

I know some chicks that can give you some inspiration to raise the voltage!

did you see the msn front page? kate upton on a trampoline.... voltage raised!

When there was PRO League with old rules... it was easy clear, everyone could bench what he liked, when he could/want, it was a "show" of real power, ES, 4-Way setups and so on. No one cared if HW was ES, specially designed in few copies, unavailable and so on. It was okay, because it was only "for ourselves".

PRO Cup is a new form, it's a COMPETITION, where there are supposed to be prizes in future (or maybe even this edition), where vendors were supposed to sponsor teams and this league in theory should bring new blood in this race, cause:

A) sponsoring

B) prizes

I don't see sponsoring and I don't see this new format "working" for new blood, I see the opposite. Maybe we need time, and I want to give it time, but if we are supposed to race, only with some chances. Of course we are all aware that there are ocers who can bin 200-500 cpus for free, and I say "good for them! :)", I am jealous because I would also like to have such option, but it's okay for me cause if they bin retails, there is always a tiny chance that I can buy this one box retail and it can be better than those 500 tested. Luck still is a big part of game. Vmods and software aren't big problem, cause if someone need those, he has to ask a good person only, and someone will share or give contacts to vendors to get those information. The problem is hw like ES samples, which can't be bought officially and in fact even on ebay it's hard to get ES Haswell now. I am only waiting to see some proves that retails can match ES and then I can race even against ES cpus, but I am too afraid of GT A0 situation.

So if PRO CUP is going to be unavailable for old normal users who try to fight top... it's pointless because sooner we will simply decide to go back to XOC. Really, in this shape now, I don't see ANY new blood coming into it. Maybe it's better to restore old PRO LEAGUE, where ES cpus weren't so big problem cause it was more about personal goal and "art", not competition... with restrictions and rules.

I am still waiting to see some screens/movies with those magical 6.5-6.7 GHz retails...

Honestly, PRO OC Cup was not interesting for me and I'm an extreme overclocker.

What about "normal" people that the cup is supposed to attract into overclocking, was it interesting for them? I don't think so.

It's like "watching" a car race (F1, DTM or whatever) on the live-timing only and not the actual race where you see the cars.

And the Pro OC is not even live. the live thing is very hard/impossible to achieve in a long-term competition, so I don't think current way of doing it will change anything.

Well ok, I've checked some of the scores which popped up on the front page, but that's all - there's no difference between this and old scores that were posted from members of Pro OC League.

Allowing/disallowing ES chips in Pro OC Cup - it almost doesn't matter to me, it only matters to those pro overclockers that don't have access to ES hardware.

Both ways Pro OC is out of reach for ordinary overclockers like me and I prefer it this way - pros are pros.

Just hypothetically - even if you ban ES, that won't change the game. I still won't stand a chance against a binned retail out of 600+ cpus. I must have a huge luck to buy such a cpu from the store .

Just my 50 cents.

Interesting opinions. I get very different responses explaining the ideas behind the pro oc cup face to face. Anyway, let's use a premium example of the Corsair OC event:

The first three stages was with hardware provided by Intel and Corsair. The other eight was with the hardware you could bring by yourself. Andre/TL had the best CPU - by far - and spammed it through all the available rankings to gain exactly eight times USD $1000. This is the old Pro OC League in a live competition. Was that fun for the competitors? Nope. Was it interesting for any non-ROG fanboys to watch? Nope. Was it great for the organisers? Nope. In the end, it was the same situation where one guy/team spams one setup through a selection of benchmarks and just wins everything. Regardless of the required skill and preparation needed to pull this off - preparation is essential to complete this killing spree - it's just a one-man show.

It doesn't matter how much benchmarks you add for points. In an open and neverending league, it all eventually boils down to making time to run all benchmarks.

It is no surprise the Cup has not been much different from the old league. There has only been one so far. It was also designed to resemble the Pro League to some extend.

I would have moved to the old pro league but now will stay in normal one

Would've, should've, could've.

I don't believe I have the best cpus on the these manufacturers. They just miss the best cpus because their boards have no idea how to bin the best cpus like X79 on releasing.

 

Would've, should've, could've.

haha sorry man im not whining, i like watching this new league. you make a good point, i think everyone wants the old league back because if you find a gem cpu you bulldoze through all the benchmarks and get lots of WR . and like you said, in the end that becomes boring to watch.

One thing I'd like to add is that the team system and adding Cinebench to the first round actually helped me compete in the league, there's no chance I would've done the same if I had no option but to bench 3770k and the most expensive GPU to be able to produce useful scores. Systems that are a bit "strange" to see in high end competitions could draw fresh blood to this part of the overclocking scene.

Pieter, let's get back to square one.

New league was meant to bring new people in to extreme OC and make it more entertaining. I have been trying to do the same in Finland without success long time. If you would get money prizes and free hardware for contestants, it would probably get some air under wings in some point. But we know that won't happen as it is easier to dominate everything with few HQ persons.

After first round we see, that the situation is exactly the same as in your example from Corsair competition. Few people dominate the competition and now when there is some talk about ES cpu's it is whining. A0 gulftown fiasco made many people angry, so "more than allowed" does not really fit in to the idea of new league. If you continue this way, it is exactly same as before and what is the point on that.

I just feel this conversation does not lead to anything really. There is this really small group of people who dominate oc scene and even smaller group who are deciding how things should go.

I was years in hwbot crew and last year my opinions were as effective as these forum posts. If you all think that I am whining, I am fine with that.

P.S Kenny, yeah I know what you mean. Giving it a chance is what we did in first round. It does not seem to evolve or go in to better direction. It does not solve issues what OC scene have and so on...

Who was #2 in the first cup and who is #2 in the current ranking (based on last three cups) ?

Yes, but we are old dogs.. not new people and we are not making it any more entertaining. We are just whining

Answer the questions please.

Well, it is quite simple. A new concept like this needs time to mature. The time in this case is minimum three/four Cups to see the effect on the Pro OC Ranking. My thinking with the Pro OC Cup is long-term, not short-term, so I don't make evaluations or conclusions after one week or even one edition of the Cup.

Now you tell me, who is #2?

Who are you guys referring to when you say new blood? Like new new people for enthusiast league or do you mean new blood to the pro league as in people coming from oc league

Now you tell me, who is #2?

#2 is the team that could afford 4 Titans (just 2 teams could compete and afford with 4 Titans in 4way) and also could afford a monster obscure server CPU.

I see no reason to be removed single VGA stage in this second round... and to me (please, is my opinion)... this is the more competitive and quality of overclocking in the CUP.

Now you tell me, who is #2?

Honestly...I could look it up maybe if I am forced to BUT(T): I don't have an idea without right of my memories or google or f(l)ucking f(l)uckbook

I couldn't care less who was #1 #2 or #3 there...

#2 is the team that could afford 4 Titans (just 2 teams could compete and afford with 4 Titans in 4way) and also could afford a monster obscure server CPU.

I see no reason to be removed single VGA stage in this second round... and to me (please, is my opinion)... this is the more competitive and quality of overclocking in the CUP.

I know it is your opinion; you have repeated it about a thousand times now.

As far as your analysis that single GPU is "more competitive", you do realize that there were a total of three people with Titan on LN2 in the previous Cup? Please explain how this is more competitive. Honestly, you could be a bit more respectful towards Gunslinger. He managed to beat KP for a while with the cards just on air.

There was a choice to be made between single GPU Titan and a dual GPU mainstream. The choice is the dual GPU. The dual GPU should be easier for teams from like Indonesia that usually have less expensive hardware.

...and yet the "monster obscure server"-setup wasn't really more expensive than the one Ronaldo uses for benching anyway.

*sigh*

I know it is your opinion; you have repeated it about a thousand times now.

 

As far as your analysis that single GPU is "more competitive", you do realize that there were a total of three people with Titan on LN2 in the previous Cup? Please explain how this is more competitive. Honestly, you could be a bit more respectful towards Gunslinger. He managed to beat KP for a while with the cards just on air.

 

There was a choice to be made between single GPU Titan and a dual GPU mainstream. The choice is the dual GPU. The dual GPU should be easier for teams from like Indonesia that usually have less expensive hardware.

Sure is more competitive...

I have not even mentioned Gunslingernor anyone. There are many more overclockers that can compete single VGA than 4 Way... or you think is not?

If only few guys hardmodded or zombiefied one Titan, is because the card is too expensive and there are risk to do it... and also need good soldering skill...

So.. this become from the highest price from the Titan... change to 7970/680/780 and you will see people in.... but to remove single card is not the better way.

@ Massman

"He managed to beat KP for a while with the cards just on air."

Massman... Nobody can "try" to be close KP with videocards in the air.... maybe in 3DMark06, where CPU is mandatory, but not FSE.... you know

...and yet the "monster obscure server"-setup wasn't really more expensive than the one Ronaldo uses for benching anyway.

 

*sigh*

There are a BIG difference.

Videocards like Titan or 7970.... CPUs like Sandy E or Ivy... are the usual overclocking tools... and can be used or can be selled if is needed.

To gaming... to overclocking...

Server CPUs is to professional use... and there are few chances to use or even to sell if is needed.

Server CPUs is to professional use... and there are few chances to use or even to sell if is needed.

Just like ES you mean, unless you have contacts or relationships with people who have access?

There are a BIG difference.

Videocards like Titan or 7970.... CPUs like Sandy E or Ivy... are the usual overclocking tools... and can be used or can be selled if is needed.

To gaming... to overclocking...

Server CPUs is to professional use... and there are few chances to use or even to sell if is needed.

Have you ever tried to sell a setup like that? No.

There are many people who run distributed computing programs that love having that much CPU power. There is definately a market for such setups, and it's not unthinkable to imagine others could be interested as well - especially now that cinebench has global and world record points.

Server CPUs are not for pro use only. Remember SR2? Very popular for Vantage and wPrime. That's a server setup, in the sense that it used server CPUs. Back in the AMD K8 days people bought server CPUs, Opterons, to get high overclocks for their 24/7 setups. The Xeon series for 775 was very popular, too - lots of people used Xeon 3060/3070 for example, instead of E6600/E6700. In the end, a server CPU can be used for whatever you like. If I could find a solution to the power draw issues I'm facing, I bet I could even use this for gaming:D

Server CPUs are not for pro use only. Remember SR2? Very popular for Vantage and wPrime.

Your concept is popular different from mine.

I believe that SR2 has been the only server motherboard with support for overclocking, and my country was as rare as a white elephant.

Must be why we see no results in the World League with SR3.

Compare the popularity of desktop hardware with server hardware, nor should it be the reason of the topic, as I did not post here to make controversy, but to think that the hwbot conduct a more disputed Pro Cup.

If I say that with single card, or with hardware more popular, as well as ask to more competitive rules have to be more competitive, I do because I believe will be good to, the league.

I did not ask to be in the Pro Cup, but was forced to do, and don't want to back to this theme, so therefore, I believe that if HWBOT acts this way, putting us to fight together full sponsorship teams, would make the competition harder for them (for example, not allowing ES chips, or Full Out) and easier for those who have fewer opportunities and support.

It is clear that my opinions are not welcome, and I'm also not here to annoy.

Since I will not buy 4 cards, ... I will not have a 4770K ES because I have "no contacts" ... I like maximum scores as I have benched since long time with High End hardware (so will not compete in IGP and mainstream), I will no more borrow you in the forum, it remains for me to leave the Pro Cup Q3, and wish you all competitors, fun and good luck.

I hope I am wrong and you right.

Best wishes...

Just a tip. Sr3 isnt that popular cause new xeon processors arent unlocked.

And you can't buy it in all countries. I wanted one, them suckers won't sell me one....

Your concept is popular different from mine.

I believe that SR2 has been the only server motherboard with support for overclocking, and my country was as rare as a white elephant.

Must be why we see no results in the World League with SR3.

Compare the popularity of desktop hardware with server hardware, nor should it be the reason of the topic, as I did not post here to make controversy, but to think that the hwbot conduct a more disputed Pro Cup.

If I say that with single card, or with hardware more popular, as well as ask to more competitive rules have to be more competitive, I do because I believe will be good to, the league.

I did not ask to be in the Pro Cup, but was forced to do, and don't want to back to this theme, so therefore, I believe that if HWBOT acts this way, putting us to fight together full sponsorship teams, would make the competition harder for them (for example, not allowing ES chips, or Full Out) and easier for those who have fewer opportunities and support.

It is clear that my opinions are not welcome, and I'm also not here to annoy.

Since I will not buy 4 cards, ... I will not have a 4770K ES because I have "no contacts" ... I like maximum scores as I have benched since long time with High End hardware (so will not compete in IGP and mainstream), I will no more borrow you in the forum, it remains for me to leave the Pro Cup Q3, and wish you all competitors, fun and good luck.

 

I hope I am wrong and you right.

 

Best wishes...

SR2 is the server board with the most overclocking oriented BIOS, for sure. Skulltrail would be a good #2 here. Asus L1N64 WS had two sockets and also decent options for overclocking in the BIOS, but was never popular because AMD was so far behind back then.

Personally I don't mind if we focus more on "normal" rigs, but then the really high end GPUs and desktop CPUs should also be forbidden. Say, 4670k/3570k and GTX670/HD7950 as most high end parts allowed. There's no reason to allow $1000 parts if the goal is to make the competition financially accessible for everyone. Then we have to reduce the costs even more than what you suggest.

SR2 is the server board with the most overclocking oriented BIOS, for sure. Skulltrail would be a good #2 here. Asus L1N64 WS had two sockets and also decent options for overclocking in the BIOS, but was never popular because AMD was so far behind back then.

 

Personally I don't mind if we focus more on "normal" rigs, but then the really high end GPUs and desktop CPUs should also be forbidden. Say, 4670k/3570k and GTX670/HD7950 as most high end parts allowed. There's no reason to allow $1000 parts if the goal is to make the competition financially accessible for everyone. Then we have to reduce the costs even more than what you suggest.

What rbuass means is that to be more competitive as global points hardware.

Gtx 670 and Hd 7950 can not bring thr max score that is needed to Pro`s.

What rbuass means is that to be more competitive as global points hardware.

Gtx 670 and Hd 7950 can not bring thr max score that is needed to Pro`s.

Neither does a single GPU setup for a 3D benchmark, or a single CPU setup for a multithreaded CPU benchmark. You won't get any world records with those limitations, as they belong to the "out of reach"-platforms, like my 4P server and 4-way Titan rigs.

The question is what the Pro Cup really is. Is it a place with no limits, which encourages people to try to beat the world records regardless of cost? Or is it made to rank the best overclockers against each other? Ronaldo's limits are neither. It's not possible to get any records, and it's still too expensive for most individuals. I tried to create one set of limitations for both cases.

Neither does a single GPU setup for a 3D benchmark, or a single CPU setup for a multithreaded CPU benchmark. You won't get any world records with those limitations, as they belong to the "out of reach"-platforms, like my 4P server and 4-way Titan rigs.

 

The question is what the Pro Cup really is. Is it a place with no limits, which encourages people to try to beat the world records regardless of cost? Or is it made to rank the best overclockers against each other? Ronaldo's limits are neither. It's not possible to get any records, and it's still too expensive for most individuals. I tried to create one set of limitations for both cases.

I think is different.

With single card you will reach the max score and belong top scores with Global Records.

Is the reason about Global Records single, 2 cards, 3 cards and 4 cards.

One card is the max of the max, where overclocker need to extract the max.

Two cards still good, because there are lots of competitors with Global, since there are cards with 2 chips, and it reforce the number of competitors.

Three cards is almost empty, because has less value even to earn points.

Four cards, regardless earn less points, it is balanced because there are WR points.

I see no relationship to GTX670 and HD7950 to the max scores, instead, I see HD7970 and GTX680 (since Titan still for few overclockers, and also needs lots of skill to bench really hard).

I understand rbuass point of view, and also believe 4 Titans is too heavy, but if 4 Titans is part of a stagem, don't mean do not have a single card stage.

About servers, I think it was just fixed and there are no more server CPUs in Pro Cup Q3, what is correct IMHO.

Pro must be without limit....like F1 .

But in F1 driver are not gonna pay to buy cars.

To be honest i really admire people like Nick, Andre and Vince that can play with those kind of hardware, and be payed to do that. besides that they have also the best mechanic to prepare their cars (shamino and tin....) that are payed by the sponsor as well,

I would like to do the same, and in the past i spent so much money from my pocket, but to be honest at the moment I cannot spend 10000 euro or even more for each stage.

Again pro cup should be without limitation, but in this way is frustrating because we all know that we'll have always the same winner .....

I am not competing in pro cup, but if you want to make it popular like F1 or similar, get few sponsor that will give hardware/money to their team, make list of Overclockers like ( NBA draft) so few sponsors can choose like pick on a draft from list and form the team ( same like NBA teams with their pick), after draft competition with sponsors involved. I think many of sponsors that sponsored hwbot will think about idea to have their own team, they can choose. It is just an idea how to make this all interesting. Also rewards on every cup is must, without it and also without sponsored hardware it will be just whining all the way....

Yap, I agree with Giorgio and Dusan, it should be sponsored and without limits, but this won't happen.

I am still waiting to see those magical 6.5-6.7 GHz retails Haswells... only 19 days for creating teams.

Pro must be without limit....like F1 .

But in F1 driver are not gonna pay to buy cars.

The F1 organisation or FIA aren't paying for the cars either.

I understand your opinion fully. I often see people who could be perfectly competing with those "fully" sponsored corporate overclockers, but strike out only because resources/time and so on. That's something really difficult to battle and I don't see it get any better in the future if marketing teams keep focussing on the short-term "world record" PR ideals. That hunt for "world-records" is what is driving a lot of the marketing departments, regardless of the impact it has on the community. We all know WR requires super-binned hardware and industry sources ... and only a few can have those .

The first effect of the new Pro competition style can already be seen today. Do you remember the idea to make a buffer for new hardware launches to prevent pre-release hardware to dominate the Pro ranking (link)? With the Cup, this problem is solved. The scores from the past Cup are as valuable today as they were before the Haswell launch and the scores for Haswell will only be of value at the end of the current Cup. Too bad no one has caught onto this effect yet .

Just like with anything in life, the change needs a bit of time to get traction. From what I gather of the meetings at Computex, the Cup is a lot easier to explain and understand by marketing (= "funding") teams. Most of them would like to join in on sponsorships for teams. It will be a matter of figuring out a good procedure to manage the sponsorships, which is something the "drivers" should figure out I think. I can help making the connections, though.

Hmm it seems that GTX 780 doesn't support 4-Way...

I am surprised to hear people suggest that F1 is without limits. F1 racing is most certainly very much limited and regulated. There are regulations as to what may and may not be done to a car, a chassis, an engine, the tyres, the total weight of the care and so on. In fact all motor sports are regulated.

Here is a link to the Technical Regulations just to highlight what I mean.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/

Now to take that F1 analogy to the next level when talking about benching and OC'ing one would have to ask why were those regulations brought into play? The answer is two fold. First safety, too fast and people would die. Yes regulators actively try to slow cars down.

The second is economics when you break it down. TV audiences want to see competitive races, they do not want to see a boring procession to the finish line. This was the case a few years ago, numbers started to drop. The revenue generated by the TV rights are what drive the sport onwards, high viewer-ship numbers ensure that value is had by sponsors of the teams. In other words the F1 needed to be competitive to be viable. This they did.

So they change the regulations each season. They add stuff, they limit stuff. The point being F1 is constantly evolving.

OC and Benching needs to be constantly evolving too. So maybe there does need to be discussions about regulating the sport.

Discussions like this are part of the evolution process and very interesting to read. I just wanted to debunk the notion that anything goes in F1.

Q - are the 3GB 660TI's acceptable for Pro cup.. or is there a 2GB limitation for onboard memory?

I am surprised to hear people suggest that F1 is without limits. F1 racing is most certainly very much limited and regulated. There are regulations as to what may and may not be done to a car, a chassis, an engine, the tyres, the total weight of the care and so on. In fact all motor sports are regulated.

 

Here is a link to the Technical Regulations just to highlight what I mean.

 

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/

 

Now to take that F1 analogy to the next level when talking about benching and OC'ing one would have to ask why were those regulations brought into play? The answer is two fold. First safety, too fast and people would die. Yes regulators actively try to slow cars down.

 

The second is economics when you break it down. TV audiences want to see competitive races, they do not want to see a boring procession to the finish line. This was the case a few years ago, numbers started to drop. The revenue generated by the TV rights are what drive the sport onwards, high viewer-ship numbers ensure that value is had by sponsors of the teams. In other words the F1 needed to be competitive to be viable. This they did.

 

So they change the regulations each season. They add stuff, they limit stuff. The point being F1 is constantly evolving.

 

OC and Benching needs to be constantly evolving too. So maybe there does need to be discussions about regulating the sport.

 

Discussions like this are part of the evolution process and very interesting to read. I just wanted to debunk the notion that anything goes in F1.

Itttts alive! How are ya big fella?

Q - are the 3GB 660TI's acceptable for Pro cup.. or is there a 2GB limitation for onboard memory?

They are acceptable

For the 2xGPU/3D06 stage, do we have to use 660Ti/ 7870 cards, or can we use lesser cards, Fermi etc.

Cheers!

Limited to 660ti / 7870.

No problem Thanks!

This new Pro Cup is not interesting to viewers at all IMO. And now there is no ranking as well it seems. You cannot expect casual viewers/overclockers to understand the grand scheme of things but maybe its about targeting the Marketing teams and not the overclockers.

Is correct that we can use Ivy in new PRO CUP?

nothing seems to have changed. oh well i guess we'll just have to sit in limbo some more until it does

Is correct that we can use Ivy in new PRO CUP?

Sure.

Not IVB-E, though.

What about Crystalwell / GT3e?

What about Crystalwell / GT3e?

Yes.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core%20i7-4770R.html

Introduction date

June 2, 2013 (launch)

June 4, 2013 (announcement)

But only new scores or old are in as well?

Old are okay too.

Yes.

 

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core%20i7-4770R.html

 

Introduction date

 

June 2, 2013 (launch)

June 4, 2013 (announcement)

Interesting! (From Anand:)

Crystalwell is only offered alongside quad-core GT3 Haswell. Unlike previous generations of Intel graphics, high-end socketed desktop parts do not get Crystalwell. Only mobile H-SKUs and desktop (BGA-only) R-SKUs have Crystalwell at this point. Given the potential use as a very large CPU cache, it’s a bit insane that Intel won’t even offer a single K-series SKU with Crystalwell on-board.

Laptop Vs desktop Vs (OEM BGA + locked chip)

Iris Pro is OEM only and.... from what I can see... not available yet.

This would be the most relevant picture for us

Rsnubje has about 10.3K with air cooled system. It's in the ballpark. I wonder if the 4770R part is overclockable too.

If the iGPU is overclockable, then the -R- is the chip to have. The 4770K can't overcome the difference through CPU power, so it comes down to that one question.

Well I'll have access to the i7-4950HQ as per that image you posted PJ, not the 4770R. So it's technically a laptop CPU/GPU...

Are we alouded to post scores with single vga in the last stage?

No, only dual GPU

Damn... you are fast

Ok thanks man.

Hi Massman-san

Can I use the MOA's result of SuperPi 32M for the Pro Cup?

Yes, absolutely!

(see you in October, we owe you a couple of drinks )

Oh thanks for your confirmation!

See you in October! I'm really looking forward to seeing you guys in Taiwan

What happens with equal points?

United Overclockers is closing in on KPC#2. Also in the overall ranking ... nice!

Let's hope to push more when I come back from my vacations

I did my first IGP run and we are now in second place. Nice!

Dear Massman.

How does it the result in the windows8 base process at the pro-cup?

Does it pass? As soon, We are going to challenge the 4-way. If the win8 is ok, we will try the 4-way with win8.

Please check it.

Why would Windows8 be allowed, its not on hwbot at all.

Come on, this is more complicated that that.

I see only two options here:

1) make existing PRO OC CUP submissions made on Win8 invalid and force those people rebench on Win7

2) let existing Win8 submissions be and make special exception to allow benching on Win8 for the contest

It would be totally unfair if existing Win8 submission will be let go, but making new sumbissions on Win8 would be banned.

Owh, didn't come back in this thread. The rules for the pro cup are the same as for the rest of hwbot:

1) Existing Win8 submissions will not be blocked because the win8 subs are not that much off

2) New (later than 20/08) Win8 submissions will be blocked and cannot be used.

Sorry for the delayed response

Ok then. I will assemble my 4-way rig once more and give it a try on Win7.

This is just undoable to surpass Win8 scores on Win7

how things freezing here

kitchen robot? bedroom or living room would be a better option

dorm

Not having a half decent Haswell for Spi32M and '06 is killing us.

Only 20 hours till sandbag

I'm having another shot at Mem clock tonight. Last night did.....not go well. Never seen "00" so frequently in my entire damned life

Can not submit scores. Is it hwbot issue or just this pro oc cup submissions? Only 20 hours left, so hopefully this will be fixed soon

Same problem for me. All the AM3 stuff I submitted went through "fine," but one Mem OC score and HWB server says "nope"

Ok- new problem. Submission has gone through but I only have the option of participating in the ASRock competition, not the Pro Cup....even when I submit the score through the Pro Cup page??

yeah we need score update, what happen with hwbot?

Ok, I hope Frederik can check it asap. For now, just submit the score and I will manually link them to the competition.

Do you want to wait until the competition is over and deal with all the scores at once, or deal with them as they're submitted? I have one score that's not been "connected" properly. CBA re-benching 3D06 with one hour to go. Recipe for disaster

http://hwbot.org/submission/2420306_billy_the_kid_3dmark___cloud_gate_hd_4600_(gt2_haswell)_12762_marks?recalculate=true

To late bad clock on computer....

Well.... Pro Cup #2 is done!

Congrats to KPC team 1!

Yep, Pro Cup Q3 '13 finally done at last.

The last-minute benching session is not running so well as I expected (only 1 out of 3 rig give a half-decent score), a bit annoyed that my rig cannot give 12500-ish in IGP stage, and I don't have a decent multi-GPU setup for Fire Strike Extreme. But i had fun during this Q3 '13 so it's all okay :D

Congrats again for the winners, especially KPC Pro OC #1 :ws: :ws:

See u guys in the next round

thankyou I worked very hard...

jk gotta pick up the slack now that dre is out

Looking forward next stage...