EVGA's "Ultimate OC Project" Features New Business Model for Overclocking Products

If you've been following the news and leaks on the upcoming freshly released EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti K|ngp|n, you will have noticed the community excitement around the graphics card. In a press release posted by Hexus you can find all new marketing and product features that come with the card.

One particular feature that caught my attention is the "Ultimate OC Project". It's not a product feature, but a whole new way of looking at selling overclocking products. To quite EVGA's official website:

"With this new card EVGA is also introducing a brand new way to purchase, by allowing you to select the best card to suit your needs. For the first time ever, EVGA is introducing a way to select your approximate GPU ASIC (approximate OC performance) Quality before purchasing. Every single piece of silicon, whether it be a CPU or GPU, varies when it comes to maximum overclocking. On GPU's, ASIC quality is one way to determine potential overclock performance. Please note this ASIC Quality* DOES NOT guarantee any specific overclock performance, it is merely a guide. The higher the ASIC Quality, the higher the potential overclock performance and the rarer the GPU. Of course, this can and will vary."

In short: there are different price points for the card, depending on the (alleged) overclocking potential based on the ASIC quality. The price difference varies from EUR €930 / USD $850 for a 72% ASIC to EUR €1150 / USD $1050 for a 80%+ ASIC card. Note: the GTX 780 Ti K|ngp|n card launched around EUR €880 early last year.

With emphasis on potential overclock, it's interesting to see such a radical new approach to selling retail overclocking products. I can't recall any other major hardware vendor doing anything like this. Whether this will be a successful or failed approach at up-selling overclocking hardware remains to be seen, but it's good to see companies try to diversify approaches to entice people to buy higher quality products. It's good to see something else than the race-to-the-bottom approach!

What do you think?


109

Belgium Massman says:

I'm intrigued. Though it's a fairly similar idea like memory vendors selling kits at different rated speeds, it's interesting to see EVGA use ASIC as a way to up-sell.

Will be interesting to see how this pans out ...

United States Random says:

I just wonder if these are going to be anything like 780Ti where the 60% asic and the 80% asic are roughly the same but everything in between cant scale worth a damn. I do like how well the page goes out of its way to stress that ". Please note this ASIC Quality* DOES NOT guarantee any specific overclock performance, it is merely a guide. The higher the ASIC Quality, the higher the potential overclock performance and the rarer the GPU. Of course, this can and will vary. * ASIC stands for ***8220;application-specific integrated circuit***8221;, which is a general term used to describe a processor designed for a specific task. All GPU***8217;s have varying levels of ASIC QUALITY levels, which can be read from applications like GPU-Z. The higher the ASIC quality, the rarer the GPU and the higher potential there is for a better overclock. Of course, this can vary and does not guarantee any specific overclock." I also wonder how these are going to be sold if at all to retail stores, I mean are they really going to stock all of the different grades?

says:

Hello folks,

I think I can share my experience on this.
Not a direct answer or opinion to this policy of sales, but rather on Asic quality.

Conclusions and interpretations of my findings are subject to anyone's criticism, good bad or whatever.

I spent more than 100 hours of rigorous testing, using every available tool I had plus four multi-meters and an advanced spectrum analyzer for the tests done.

To the point.
A month ago I bought four EVGA GTX Titan X SC graphics cards.
One has 79% asic.
One has 75% asic.
Two have 63% asic.

Preliminary tests showed that the two "good" cards were capable of overclocking to 1546 boost level with a modded 1.281V bios on air and approximately 1700 on cold water with a 1.312V bios.

The two lesser cards, had respectively 60mhz less potential under same conditions.

The problem of course is not big if someone is up to daily gaming, but is significant if someone is benching for records.

Up to now, I am not saying anything that is not already widely known.

I went though a step further.
I was intrigued to find out if the electrical leakage of the lesser cards could be counter fought.

I flashed the two good cards with bios 1.281 and the two lesser with bios 1.312.

The gap almost closed in a three or four way SLI setup.

Still though, the analyzer, showed a bad ripple when the two lesser cards approached their limits, while the two good ones had no ripple at all.

I know that these findings may be very well known to extreme clockers using external power devices and extreme cooling, but in any case I thought I should share my amateur approach of things.

As to EVGA's decision, I think it is a huge marketing trick and it does not justify the significant price difference.

Germany Dancop says:

To comment this from the ln2 side of view I think it's not that bad at all. I've tested 11 780ti and 13 980 and now 4 980ti And one titanx There were differences between 58.6% and 88.1% But ALWAYS!!! The best clocking cards on ln2 were around 72 and 77 High asic cards seemed to be leaky and low ASICS very voltage hungry! So...I think, that this option is not that bad at all...but me for instance, I would have done some more categories. For the memories for sure!

says:

Dancop said: To comment this from the ln2 side of view I think it's not that bad at all. I've tested 11 780ti and 13 980 and now 4 980ti And one titanx There were differences between 58.6% and 88.1% But ALWAYS!!! The best clocking cards on ln2 were around 72 and 77 High asic cards seemed to be leaky and low ASICS very voltage hungry! So...I think, that this option is not that bad at all...but me for instance, I would have done some more categories. For the memories for sure!
I agree whole heartedly Daniel for the LN2 view. I more over agree that binned memories would be even more important. Cheers mate:ws:

United States Random says:

So for ln2 which card should i grab? Im still confused

I had 3 780ti kpe cards in the 70s and they didnt come close to the others in air binning

The 1000$ one or the 850$?
Just forget about the 80+ then

Germany Dancop says:

For air and water you should order the highest asic For ln2 at least no low asic My experience was great with mid 70s But maybe there's one platin chip at high asic?! You never know...the game is on

United States Random says:

Dancop said: For air and water you should order the highest asic
For ln2 at least no low asic
My experience was great with mid 70s
But maybe there's one platin chip at high asic?!
You never know...the game is on


Ill get the 2nd best tier or the cheapest depending on stock them i suppose.

I wonder if i shouldnt just hold off for a lightning, 1000$ is steep considering if they werent binning these you could probably get a 75+ asic card randomly

Thanks for info, really helps

Germany Dancop says:

The most expensive coming with cards like strix, matrix, lightning, classified is not the chip. Companies work on pcb. Nvidia has more than one year for tape out...companies have the time after tape out, which is at least 6 month less. The they develop entire new layouts, which is surely based on elder generations. Nevertheless it's custom design! So...no matter what you buy, you'll get a lot more out of these cards while overclocking them compared to reference cards! And some of these customs are better than other customs. That's why they spent time and work...

United States Random says:

well, I just mean the jump in price for prebinned cards is a little much, I'd rather play the lottery so to speak. id rather pay 800$ for nonref pcb and get whatever chip because if you buy into the lowest tier you are guaranteed not to get anything thatd qualify higher, if they are binning n all. Id argue with their pricing but they sold out of the most expensive ones fastest so... by laws of supply and demand they are right. I just wish it were easier to get cards thatd just work well on LN2, FOR LN2 USERS. like you should have to prove you own pots or dewars for some of this stuff. they should just set aside 100 or so of heir best samples and reserve it for people thatd put them to good use is all I am saying. It pains me knowing people will buy these only for gaming... ideally I'd wait till some company comes out with something like the MOA 780Tis, for a competition, and buy one second hand from someone who attended said comp.

United States xxbassplayerxx says:

I agree. I would have much rather played the lottery. As I mentioned over at OCN, if you're going to bin, offer one good bin (80+ in this case) so those of us who would prefer not the pay the premium can go on as usual without directly buying into a lower tier.

United States Random says:

its also interesting how the people who don't use ln2 are going to be the ones being bent over the coals, so to speak. I mean it seems that air and water users are gonna be after the most expensive stuff while LN2 users are either gonna be better off buying the lower price poinrs, if what Dancop says holds up. I think if they were going to be binning they could have used a different value than asic to test for if they were marketing towards actual overclockers. I mean as far as I can tell the only people who get stuck on asic values are those who buy these for gaming and some light benching.

United States Gunslinger says:

Random said: its also interesting how the people who don't use ln2 are going to be the ones being bent over the coals, so to speak.
Those guys should not be wasting their money on this card but instead grab either reference or the regular old Classified. (assuming they'd stick with EVGA at all)

United States Random says:

Yeah those guys shouldn't even be allowed to buy them IMHO and I will say it all day long, but they seem to think they need a kingpin card,though and undoubtedly that's where 80% of them end up. But it would probably ruin the ability to make them if they couldnt sell enough to cover production costs, which is likley in that scenario, I may dislike them but they probably make the card possible.

United States xxbassplayerxx says:

OCN is absolutely chalk full of people buying this card to run it on air. It's kinda ridiculous lol. So much money for such a small gain.

Germany Dancop says:

I don't think so... We have the autobahn in germany My car does 215 km/h Lamborghini does 300...what the gain? You are not able to run 300 everywhere...then maybe you reach your aim after 600 km 0.5 hour earlier... Where's the gain??? You have the Lamborghini. ..that's it! You could if you want! That's custom designed graphics cards! There's always a niche! Take all my money !

K404 says:

I don't think any of us can complain when a 6.5G Haswell might be £800 and a 6.4 is £700. eVGA are taking advantage of the financial characteristics of what we do. I don't *like* it, but they're being smart with their business. Did anyone complain about OCUK selling reject bench chips? Ok, those had a bit more proof of MHz, but the precedent has been set- we're willing to spend extra for binned stuff. No-one's fault but ours.

Germany Dancop says:

That's the way a haha I like it ahaha

United States Random says:

Yeah, jeez at ocn half the time they just want to watercool it and claim they are benchers. "we like having good looking systems that perform well, we rarely game" is what someone said... there are alot of people with more money than sense on that forum, remember the guy with 4 sli titan z and 2 4960x that did 5ghz under 1.3 or something? it was flat out unrealistic, and then he was going to supposedly donate the 2 rigs he was building from them... Its one thing when there are people doing sponsored professional builds to use this stuff but I saw someone was planing to use an aio on one of these kingpin cards... I mean really?! These people arent ever going to go over 90kph in that car though... they arent even paying for a ferrari at this point anymore they would be paying for a ferrari thats been fully moddified just these cards might as well be rotting somewhere in a shipping container

United States xxbassplayerxx says:

To be fair though... this card is the sexiest GPU I can remember.

K404 says:

I guess you aren't a fan of the novice/Enthusiast leagues, then? Lighten up :D They have disposable cash and an open market. 1st-world perks, let them enjoy it :D

Germany Dancop says:

Let us all have fun with all those sexy custom cards...there are so much. It's on us to figure out which is the best of all!

United States Random says:

K404 said: I guess you aren't a fan of the novice/Enthusiast leagues, then?

Lighten up :D They have disposable cash and an open market. 1st-world perks, let them enjoy it :D

they bench so its fine but most of the people on ocn are just doing it for the e-peen I mean it seems like a good chunk barely know the concepts of how to overclock these cards, with the questions you see arise on the club threads

and the enthusiast league would be fine with a regular classy no? could they take advantage of anything otherthan perhaps the ASIC binning?

United States Lays says:

Random said: Yeah, jeez at ocn half the time they just want to watercool it and claim they are benchers.
"we like having good looking systems that perform well, we rarely game" is what someone said...
there are alot of people with more money than sense on that forum, remember the guy with 4 sli titan z and 2 4960x that did 5ghz under 1.3 or something? it was flat out unrealistic, and then he was going to supposedly donate the 2 rigs he was building from them...

Its one thing when there are people doing sponsored professional builds to use this stuff but I saw someone was planing to use an aio on one of these kingpin cards... I mean really?!


These people arent ever going to go over 90kph in that car though...
they arent even paying for a ferrari at this point anymore they would be paying for a ferrari thats been fully moddified



To be fair, a lot of people (like myself) are scared of taking the plunge for Ln2, or don't have the money to pay for things if something dies, so they opt out for the safer route of watercooling.

I REALLY enjoy benching on hwbot and I've managed to get #1 in the USA in novice league in a short amount of time. I love pushing my hardware as far as I can on the cooling methods at hand. I've been debating on Ln2 for a while and I really want to take the plunge into DICE or Ln2 but I'm scared I'll break something, I can't afford to replace anything if I do. Although I am however putting together a 1080mm external radiator loop that I should be able to stick out my window during winter :D

I do think the people buying this card because "it looks cool" are just wasting such great potential in a GPU, but I guess it's whatever.
There was a lot of people on OCN planning on buying these despite Vince (kingpin) posting in the thread telling them for air/water the Classified would probably be better. A few of them only want it because it looked cool, or they thought it was a "marvel" of hardware.. lol

Germany Dancop says:

Just try ln2 once, trained by a pro like splave , loud or whoever You'll love it

United States Lays says:

Dancop said: Just try ln2 once, trained by a pro like splave , loud or whoever
You'll love it


I need to save for a pot then :(

United States Random says:

Lays said: To be fair, a lot of people (like myself) are scared of taking the plunge for Ln2, or don't have the money to pay for things if something dies, so they opt out for the safer route of watercooling.

I REALLY enjoy benching on hwbot and I've managed to get #1 in the USA in novice league in a short amount of time. I love pushing my hardware as far as I can on the cooling methods at hand. I've been debating on Ln2 for a while and I really want to take the plunge into DICE or Ln2 but I'm scared I'll break something, I can't afford to replace anything if I do. Although I am however putting together a 1080mm external radiator loop that I should be able to stick out my window during winter :D

I do think the people buying this card because "it looks cool" are just wasting such great potential in a GPU, but I guess it's whatever.
There was a lot of people on OCN planning on buying these despite Vince (kingpin) posting in the thread telling them for air/water the Classified would probably be better. A few of them only want it because it looked cool, or they thought it was a "marvel" of hardware.. lol


see you should have 4 of these, cuz you actually put them to use...

I didn't even start submitting scores till I was in enthusiast league and then that only lasted for a month if even before I had to go into extreme, I rarely submit points, benching is just good fun even without the competition side to it.
and yeah ln2 is not bad at all you just have to insulate well. I suggest starting off with something like an asrock ocf board and a quad core. just cuz the asrock is already for the most part fully insulated. means you can be a little sloppy. I would not start out freezing any of these recent gpus though, the mems coldbug low which is not fun to deal with when you are trying to learn something.

my first thing I froze was some c6 2000 pi i had my 4790k on phase and only had to worry about the mem pot. it was super fun, I think I did c6 2800 on my first session.
as long as you arent getting distracted and keep sure everything is subzero so you dont get condensation you are pretty good.

but overclocking on LN2 is a whole other beast, I definitely think for your first time you should have someone with experience to help you. Just to show you the ins and outs and the stuff you wont really read about.

United States Lays says:

Random said: see you should have 4 of these, cuz you actually put them to use...

I didn't even start submitting scores till I was in enthusiast league and then that only lasted for a month if even before I had to go into extreme, I rarely submit points, benching is just good fun even without the competition side to it.
and yeah ln2 is not bad at all you just have to insulate well. I suggest starting off with something like an asrock ocf board and a quad core. just cuz the asrock is already for the most part fully insulated. means you can be a little sloppy. I would not start out freezing any of these recent gpus though, the mems coldbug low which is not fun to deal with when you are trying to learn something.

my first thing I froze was some c6 2000 pi i had my 4790k on phase and only had to worry about the mem pot. it was super fun, I think I did c6 2800 on my first session.
as long as you arent getting distracted and keep sure everything is subzero so you dont get condensation you are pretty good.

but overclocking on LN2 is a whole other beast, I definitely think for your first time you should have someone with experience to help you. Just to show you the ins and outs and the stuff you wont really read about.



I think after I get all my watercooling stuff and after I move to z170 I will probably save for an Ln2 pot :D

Kingpincooling is probably the best place to get it from eh? I think de8auer's prices are slightly higher and I'd have to pay more expensive shipping since he's based in EU I think.

United States Random says:

Lays said: I think after I get all my watercooling stuff and after I move to z170 I will probably save for an Ln2 pot :D

Kingpincooling is probably the best place to get it from eh? I think de8auer's prices are slightly higher and I'd have to pay more expensive shipping since he's based in EU I think.

They are both shipping out of eu i think. Id go for der8auer actually, his shipping is cheap cuz hes in germany and uses dhl
Last i checked it was 50$ minimum to get a pot shipped from kingpin and my cryoclamp with a few armaflex sheets and probes was only 20$
Otherwise buy a used pot.
Also i think his slim pots and fusion cpu pots were cheaper.
Either way hes got much more r&d in his pots than kingpin.

Australia zeropluszero says:

Random said: Either way hes got much more r&d in his pots than kingpin.

thats a fucking bold statement.

United States Lays says:

Random said: They are both shipping out of eu i think. Id go for der8auer actually, his shipping is cheap cuz hes in germany and uses dhl
Last i checked it was 50$ minimum to get a pot shipped from kingpin and my cryoclamp with a few armaflex sheets and probes was only 20$
Otherwise buy a used pot.
Also i think his slim pots and fusion cpu pots were cheaper.
Either way hes got much more r&d in his pots than kingpin.




Ok tyvm man, i will look into all this :)

United States Random says:

zeropluszero said: thats a bunnying bold statement.


I stand by it l, i did alot of research into his lineup before i got any pots a year ago or so. If you look hard enough you can find some interesting stuff about his development process.

Just compare the pics of the bases. The engineering is marvelous. People are talking about getting these gpus cuz they look good, roman's pots are freaking works of art on top of their performance.

the beast reaches temps with 1liter... i want a beast xD
Id rather have ot than another gpu thatll be worthless in 6months

Only reason i have a gemini 2.0 is because i got it for ridiculously cheap.

Australia zeropluszero says:

"it looks complex, so it must be better designed"

Australia newlife says:

Selling various 780ti's based on ASIC quality is fucking stupid

Germany Dancop says:

You don't have to buy. But I bet a lot guys will buy high asic! How many people are wining that they got a low asic titanx? A lot! All of these would rather pay more money for a better asic. That marketing man!

Greece FireKillerGR says:

zeropluszero said: "it looks complex, so it must be better designed"


Ehm yes & no. I have seen fancy pots hand designed by local guys before but they didnt perform well. So if it looks complex/fancy it doesnt mean its good but when it comes to Der8auer's pots it does. :)

GENiEBEN says:

Ultimate-L33T-Money-Grab-OC. -by Bob from PR.

Australia newlife says:

Dancop said: You don't have to buy. But I bet a lot guys will buy high asic!
How many people are wining that they got a low asic titanx? A lot! All of these would rather pay more money for a better asic. That marketing man!


I'm not going to disagree it's smart marketing but it plays on peoples lack of knowledge because as stated in the article "it is merely a guide"

Germany Dancop says:

Sure, but as I've said...nobody forces anybody to buy 80+ asic ;) If there's no need for high clocks on air, stick with 74 If there's no ln2 involved and guys are just seeking for let's say 1300 stable, stick with reference! BIG BUTTTT My Lamborghini story is true...you want that lambo because it's a lambo, no matter if u just use it for buying a tray of beer. And then there's the Avantador, which is the 80+ asic card...

United States filmbot says:

K404 said: I don't think any of us can complain when a 6.5G Haswell might be £800 and a 6.4 is £700.

eVGA are taking advantage of the financial characteristics of what we do. I don't *like* it, but they're being smart with their business.

Did anyone complain about OCUK selling reject bench chips? Ok, those had a bit more proof of MHz, but the precedent has been set- we're willing to spend extra for binned stuff.

No-one's fault but ours.


Haven't finished the rest of the thread but shocker I agree with Kenny :p

This is a great marketing strategy for EVGA. They get to upcharge products with no guarantee that the upcharge is warranted. But can't hate on them for increasing margins where they can.

EDIT: As I expected others have echoed my point but I agree, if you don't enjoy the tatic, don't buy the product or support the brand if you feel that strongly. That's how capitalism is supposed to work.

Belgium Massman says:

I admit I didn't look into this before writing the news article, but EVGA could've used this marketing strategy to artificially make their product offerings better than the competition. For example from highest pricing (A+++) to lowest pricing (A-) [list] A++ KP 76% A+ KP 74% A- reference card[/list] That way, the two top tier cards look better than any other AIB product. Other AIB looks like 74% offering, but slightly more expensive. KP 72% looks like a steal at low-price but better than reference which would be awesome for enthusiasts who wanna try the KP design on LN2. Heck, make a limited edition KP 84% at 5K USD with personal delivery by Kingpin so you have more room for KP 76 and KP 80 pricing/

United States filmbot says:

Massman said: I admit I didn't look into this before writing the news article, but EVGA could've used this marketing strategy to artificially make their product offerings better than the competition. For example from highest pricing (A+++) to lowest pricing (A-)
[list]
A++ KP 76%
A+ KP 74%
A- reference card[/list]

That way, the two top tier cards look better than any other AIB product. Other AIB looks like 74% offering, but slightly more expensive. KP 72% looks like a steal at low-price but better than reference which would be awesome for enthusiasts who wanna try the KP design on LN2.

Heck, make a limited edition KP 84% at 5K USD with personal delivery by Kingpin so you have more room for KP 76 and KP 80 pricing/


Yep, exactly. Really a perfect strategy for them. Maybe you should talk them about being apart of their technical marketing team!

United States rtsurfer says:

That's why I am gonna wait for the Lightning. MSI, what you doing. How much longer..??

K404 says:

filmbot said: shocker I agree with Kenny :p


Oi! :p

United States Lays says:

rtsurfer said: That's why I am gonna wait for the Lightning.

MSI, what you doing. How much longer..??


I hope its great, the 780 lightning was quite good and clocked real high even on air. I saw a few people hitting over 1500 mhz on water as well, hell one guy hit 1550 on a kraken g10!

I really want it to be awesome :D

United States Random says:

in all seriousness evga should just do some minor benching on these cards to bin them and add 500$ to the price tag. For some actual guaranteed performers, some people I imagine would spend that.


zeropluszero said: "it looks complex, so it must be better designed"


no I read about his process and what he does when making a pot... He makes a ton of different designs and tests them with some sort of thermal imaging dealio to see how even the cold is dispersed throughout the block then adjusts, and he tests out many many different principles..

the crossflow chambers in his fusion, raptor 3 and 8pack slim pots are exclusively his...

I think his raptor 3 slim gets down to temps super quick as well...

I did a good amount of research and there was this one article that outlined things very nicely.

rtsurfer said: That's why I am gonna wait for the Lightning.

MSI, what you doing. How much longer..??

I really hope this comes out even...

United States rtsurfer says:

Random said:
I really hope this comes out even...


Well it was teased by MSi themselves instead of some pesky rumor, so unless the plans changed.

Next month....

says:

Dancop said: Sure, but as I've said...nobody forces anybody to buy 80+ asic ;) If there's no need for high clocks on air, stick with 74 If there's no ln2 involved and guys are just seeking for let's say 1300 stable, stick with reference! BIG BUTTTT My Lamborghini story is true...you want that lambo because it's a lambo, no matter if u just use it for buying a tray of beer. And then there's the Avantador, which is the 80+ asic card...
Daniel, ( sorry folks, off topic ) If the Aventador is Asic 80, my Gemballa Avalanche GTR-850RR what Asic is it ? LMAO:banana:

France dx4picco says:

asics 55 dopped with ln2 haha

says:

dx4picco said: asics 55 dopped with ln2 haha
LMAO !!!:woot:

United States Random says:

rtsurfer said: Well it was teased by MSi themselves instead of some pesky rumor, so unless the plans changed.

Next month....


The teaser was a unreleased 780Ti though, so... like mixed messages... "look guys we made a card and never released it." Atleast then they had something to tease.
Hey this is MSI and welcome to Jackass

United States rtsurfer says:

Random said: The teaser was a unreleased 780Ti though, so... like mixed messages... "look guys we made a card and never released it." Atleast then they had something to tease.
Hey this is MSI and welcome to Jackass


Nope it was definitely 980Ti Lightning.

https://www.facebook.com/MSI.Europe/photos/a.129731527066467.11729.111253142247639/976329859073292/?type=1&permPage=1

June 12,2015.

Not to mention this article where Guru3D talked to MSi.

After not making the Lightning for previous 2 Gens, I don't think they want to loose the sales this time. Especially after they see Evga making out like bandits with the KPE.

United States Random says:

I saw a different article that just had a picture of the 780Ti. and didn't really say there would be one. Just said itd be cool if there was, type thing. SMH people wanting furry seX lightning... Doesn't that card suck?

United States rtsurfer says:

I saw one like that too, so I understand your confusion.

People, including me, believe the FuryX will fly if it gets Voltage Unlocked. :)
Hence the demand for a Lightning card. Not to mention the 290X Lightning is awesome, I have one.

Edit:- Just realized I never posted the Guru3D article in my earlier post.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/more-details-on-the-msi-gtx-980-ti-gaming-6g-and-lightning.html

United States Random says:

rtsurfer said: I saw one like that too, so I understand your confusion.

People, including me, believe the FuryX will fly if it gets Voltage Unlocked. :)
Hence the demand for a Lightning card. Not to mention the 290X Lightning is awesome, I have one.

Edit:- Just realized I never posted the Guru3D article in my earlier post.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/more-details-on-the-msi-gtx-980-ti-gaming-6g-and-lightning.html


Doesnt asus have one with voltage unlocked already? From the stuff i saw the 980ti beat out the fury by a descent chunk.
If they are better than ill probably get one... assuming i dont just get SK and more ddr4... i like ddr4.

United States rtsurfer says:

Random said: Doesnt asus have one with voltage unlocked already? From the stuff i saw the 980ti beat out the fury by a descent chunk. If they are better than ill probably get one... assuming i dont just get SK and more ddr4... i like ddr4.
No voltage unlock on Asus yet. The cards hasn't been retail yet or is OOS. Haven't checked recently. You always Bench AMD cards with Tessellation off, a lot of casuals don't do that so its slower in 3DMarks. Not to mention no one has been able to get the card above 1150-1170Mhz. A higher clock might gives us a better picture.

Belgium Massman says:

filmbot said: Yep, exactly. Really a perfect strategy for them. Maybe you should talk them about being apart of their technical marketing team!


Having been around in Taiwan for 3 years and seen how technical marketing functions within the companies, I feel blessed I can work at HWBOT :celebration:

United States Random says:

rtsurfer said: No voltage unlock on Asus yet. The cards hasn't been retail yet or is OOS. Haven't checked recently.

You always Bench AMD cards with Tessellation off, a lot of casuals don't do that so its slower in 3DMarks.

Not to mention no one has been able to get the card above 1150-1170Mhz. A higher clock might gives us a better picture.


I think i saw them on newegg a few days ago, atleast for sure on a german website. I thought the 980ti was better thougb

Canada Trouffman says:

This is a very interesting move by eVGA, First of all the KPE was supposed to be on top of the classified, like a special purpose, now they even sub categorized the KPE sub brand.
so you got : (only for 980Ti)

Ref design.
Ref design + different aircooler
Ref design + Hydro
Ref design + Hybrid

Superclocked
Superclocked+
Superclocked + different aircooler

Classified

Kingpin Edition > with differents ASICs.

if you read between the lines :
Ref design = all the same, just switch the bundle (=cooler). default clocks

Superclocked : the same PCB / different bundle - 110x ish gpu clock

Classified : brand recognition - 119x ish clocks

KPE : special PCB = Top of the line -1120 ish clocks

Where most companies would wider the number of product on the Classified (basically the best "compromise"), it seems here EVGA is making the top of the line with extra margin on good marketing ( and I find this a great idea). While they will sell number on the ref design > price competition. Superclocked will be competing on `above average` price.
The classified still look like a special card ( so fortunate gamer wil definetly go for it. )

And... Most of the marketing will be made by the KPE... and best... not one SKU... but multiple SKU !

Also the Superclocked to the KPE are all within 100mhz... that the difference between the ref and the first *special* (considering the hybrid/hydro as special)

That kinda reminds me... Gigabyte and the UD9 :D steping up very high to drive ASP higher. Clever way of doing it tho.

I will follow up on Dancop... If you ain`t like it... don`t buy it :)



What is below is 100% from my mind with no proof whatsoever what we would / could get from the other vendors :
ASUS : REf design + STRIX OC -- Yet to see a MATRIX - Matrix planitum - gold20th - Poseidon
MSI : ref + GAMING (maybe multiple ref, GAMING + GAMING OC) + HAWK + Lihtning
GBT : ref + GAMING + GAMING OC + SOC (cannot find it) + watercooled version (cannot find it)


United States dumo says:

Just buy those 80+ asic cards as many as you can afford, bin all then pick the best 4 + 2 spare just in case.

Don't forget to tell gramma that you took second mortgage on her crib to fund new exiting investment :)

United States steponz says:

Lol.. some one talking about pot design who doesn't bench... definitely shouldn't be giving recommendations. Also kp edition has samsung memory.. lightning won't have that. Hynix mem is garbage.. go buy a lightning... I definitely wont. I think it's pretty funny that most guys that bash asic here barely even bench on gpu. I think this approach is great as I can now get a better card right away instead of taking a chance everytime I buy. But what do I know.. lol..

United States steponz says:

Random said: i do 32m pi, ask splave or loud or coolhandluke. I dont really care about much else, other than the eazy peazy cpu benches, but i benh for 32m and fun...
I have done psc to c6 2900 sorry i dont have any wrs and an unlimited supply of ln2, some people have to work to get ln2... i dont have a company thatll come out and fill my tanks i have to rent a truck and fill them myself

i dont look into gpus much, i wanted to try moving into 3d with 980ti.i just want a good card so i dont have to waste time on crappy ones. I cant get points anymore with my hardware, so i was upgrading to a 980ti.

how was i supposed to know that it would be hynix?
Rt was telling me to wait for the lightning, so i was...

I recommended der8auer since his pots are actually about the same price as kingpins if you botheres to read my first reply/suggestion. Design was just a plus.

Anyways sorry for wanting to try 3d bunny you too



I don't have a company come out or pay for my LN2 either.. I have to bring 3 x 30 liter dewars to the LN2 place, get them filled then bring them up 3 flights of stairs.. sucks.. I used to get big boys delivered at my old shop... which was way cheaper.

As for the lightning.. I highly doubt it will be as good as the KP, the KP should be the only one with Samsungs and if you want to bench LN2 3d.. will benefit you greatly...
So wait for it.. while it won't benefit you at all... Plus good luck finding a good asic..
I doubt we even see a lightning.. It seems MSI only cares really about Gaming and not so much Overclocking anymore... Which is a shame... but thats how it is..

You have everything lined up to buy the best card now even with any asic your pretty much want... why would you wait.... doesn't make much sense to me..
Especially when you just said you want the best card and don't want to mess with junk..
Perfect option for you to find a good card...

Now for the pots... You can buy 2 x Kingpin Darks for the price of one of De8aurs beast pot.
Not sure where your getting your prices from.. but they are insanely wrong.
And also you haven't used either pot... only Gemini...

Also saying that there is no design in KP pots... is very very wrong...

Not trying to be a dick... but just blindly saying all this info.. is a bit much.

United States Random says:

Im sorry lets take trhis in a psitive direction. I had to get a 160L tank because the only place that does under 260L in my city charges ridiculous prices for small units it was 50$ for a 20L and 80 for a 50L and they will not do per liter. luckily I got the dewar for 600shipped and it holds pretty good. As far as prices go, his slim pots I think are cheaper new, fusion is cheaper after shipping, I used his ram pots and i was looking at his slim pot and his fusion pot is about that, I would get a fusion if I didn't have a gemini, but i also got the gemini off of major for a bext to nothing I have a cryo clamp, tsai mem pot, and a kingpin ney pro memory pot though and the der8auer was the coldest by a good amount.. I have to revisit the tsai pot though in that regards, I love the tsai pot as well but the der8auer is cheaper . I have a kingpin slim and I borrowed a fat but I don't have any gpu's worth wasting the LN2 on but I really dont want to argue I'll try and get the KPE card then if its going to be that good, I am hesitant to spend the money to go into 3D as it is... I got 780Ti KPE and never got past -30c CBs Anyhow I am frezzing some ddr4 and my 5960x today once the open box fluke 52-II I got on ebay gets here. If I could have bought a beast I would have frozen one by now... I almost got a fusion, but I don't do cpu often enough, and with SK coming out I will be able to move back to phase for mem benching I might just skip 980TI together and get ALLL of that oother stuff....

United States steponz says:

Yeah I negotiated my price to around 45 to fill each 30 liter. KP mem pot isnt great.. the module holder is junk. I do love the dark.. if you see one or hold one.. its a monster... and will hold the biggest cpus with ease.. I always recommend it. I always use the venom on X99 for its quickness and its hold.. but for max clocks Kingpin Dark is where its at..

United States Random says:

yeah I negotiated to 125 for my 160L but 80$ was as good as they would do for my 50 except when I had everything filled for 230 and they bumped the 50 down to 50 (charged me for 2x 20Ls), I have to go to a welding supply. untill I can find a 230L on ebay for a descent price shipped I can't even talk to airgas or praxair biggest issue is I either have to rent a truck(35 a day + $.90 a mile x 50miles) or a trailer with a ramp(30$ if i am lucky enough that one of my friends is willing to tow it for me..) to load and unload the 160L because its 500lbs full and I can't get it picked up because my state has laws against their trucks with flammable gases coming into residential areas.. I might have to pick up that venom if its still in the marketplace then. I thought it was hard to use for intel chips I like the gemini 2.0 I just thing a der8auer pot would be better , If anyone would sell a f1ee for a good price id buy one, kingpin pots are too expensive for me to have shipped from him for whatever reason. I was gonna get a fusion but I got thiis for 150 with the extension.. or something.. it was just hard to argue with.

United States steponz says:

I might have an extra f1ee for ya... I have to look through my stuff.. I have alot of pots... Venom is nice to use on any chip.. its just faster... so you have to be on your pouring game.. lol I really don't understand how you say its so expensive from KP, I have bought from both and KP was always cheaper. Where you located?

United States Random says:

I'm in Arizona, USA, Every time I was gonna order something of kingpin it was gonna be pot+50-60$ shipping. I havent bothered for a few months the site is down now though....

United States steponz says:

Site is back up.. I would recheck your prices.. I could likely part with a F1EE.. Just need to find the holddown and all the screws and stuff.

United States Lays says:

steponz said: Site is back up.. I would recheck your prices.. I could likely part with a F1EE.. Just need to find the holddown and all the screws and stuff.


Is the F1E dark better than the Gemini for all-around use?
I want to start getting ideas on what to buy when I take the leap of faith into Ln2.

I want to get a pot that I can keep using for multiple generations of hardware and not have to worry about things if I can.

United States steponz says:

Have you ever seen a dark or f1ee? The dark is a tank.. a hell of alot of copper.. You cant go wrong with it... its massive... Im pretty sure you can get a dark and venom for the price of the Beast.. lol ... lots of cash for that thing.

United States Lays says:

steponz said: Have you ever seen a dark or f1ee?

The dark is a tank.. a hell of alot of copper.. You cant go wrong with it... its massive...
Im pretty sure you can get a dark and venom for the price of the Beast.. lol ... lots of cash for that thing.


Is this the one you're talking about?

http://kingpincooling.com/dragon-f1-extreme-dark/

I don't see a "dark" or F1EE" are they discontinued or just not pictured online?

http://kingpincooling.com/containers/


Sorry for the hassle, never done this stuff before and want to make sure I do it right the first time around.

Thanks for the help by the way, appreciate it.

United States steponz says:

That's the dark.. can't go wrong with that pot.. its a monster bro.... ;)

Not only that.. its 239.00 US... so cheap ....

Always glad to help :)

United States Lays says:

steponz said: That's the dark.. can't go wrong with that pot.. its a monster bro.... ;)

Not only that.. its 239.00 US... so cheap ....

Always glad to help :)


Should I get that over the Gemini or Venom?

United States steponz says:

Lays said: Should I get that over the Gemini or Venom?


I have all of them.. and thats pretty much the best all around pot.. so much mass to it.
Its so heavy... its crazy...

Thats the one I would start out with :)

United States Lays says:

steponz said: I have all of them.. and thats pretty much the best all around pot.. so much mass to it.
Its so heavy... its crazy...

Thats the one I would start out with :)


Sweet, thanks I will bookmark it and start saving up :D

United States steponz says:

Also.. the prices are going to drop this week.. a little birdy told me.. so they will be even cheaper.... ;)

United States Random says:

steponz said: Also.. the prices are going to drop this week.. a little birdy told me.. so they will be even cheaper.... ;)

i hope they drop!
45$ shipping... i have no idea why..
7.50euro to get a fusion...

United States steponz says:

Fusion is much lighter than a dark.. have you benched with one.. the Dark is heavy... probably has 2 times the mass fusion has. 45 us.... 8.23 us for fusion... KP comes from Taiwan, Fusion comes from Germany. You can't even compare the too... the Dark is Massive, plus it won't take 2 months to get like the Fusion... Ive bought pots from both.. Plus with prices dropping even more.. you can't even compare.. The Dark has more weight than the beast does...

Australia newlife says:

I love my f1ee and it only takes a litre to drop from 25c to -100c

What's the weight of the dark because my f1ee is 2.5kg?

TiN says:

As somebody says, you can even update your facebook while your rig with dark running 3Dmark physics :D Dark is 3.1kg (6.8lbs). It's a great pot for today's hardware with coldbugs, you can keep temps within 2-3°C anytime, easy. Venom is more like speedy pot for lowest temps, so you can go down quick, and stay there, or warmup quick if something go sour. I liked benching with Venom even on X79/X99, it keeps you excited and jumpy, but if you novice and also have other things to worry about (e.g. GPU pots) - Dark is the way to go. It crushes any beast with a snap :D

United States rtsurfer says:

steponz said: Also kp edition has samsung memory.. lightning won't have that. Hynix mem is garbage.. go buy a lightning... I definitely wont.
All 290X Lightning had Samsung memory & I think the limited 780Ti Lightnings were too.(Not 100% sure, but probably.) Sourcing Samsung Memory shouldn't be too hard for MSi. ;)

United States Lays says:

rtsurfer said: All 290X Lightning had Samsung memory & I think the limited 780Ti Lightnings were too.(Not 100% sure, but probably.)

Sourcing Samsung Memory shouldn't be too hard for MSi. ;)


780 Lightning was like 1/2 elpida and like 1/3 was Hynix though, and a small amount of Samsung.
The elpida was absolutely horrible, you were lucky to even get +200 on it, even with maxed out mem volts :( Hynix on it was somewhat decent from what I've heard, but not many cards got it apparently. ( I followed the 780 Lightning club religiously while I had my 780 Lightning for a month or two )
Apparently MSI's excuse was some shit like supply of hynix/samsung was low so they used primarily elpida.
I really hope they do get Samsung ram though, it seems so much better.

United States rtsurfer says:

Lays said: 780 Lightning was like 1/2 elpida and like 1/3 was Hynix though, and a small amount of Samsung.
The elpida was absolutely horrible, you were lucky to even get +200 on it, even with maxed out mem volts :( Hynix on it was somewhat decent from what I've heard, but not many cards got it apparently. ( I followed the 780 Lightning club religiously while I had my 780 Lightning for a month or two )
Apparently MSI's excuse was some bunnyextraction like supply of hynix/samsung was low so they used primarily elpida.
I really hope they do get Samsung ram though, it seems so much better.


I am aware of 780L. The 290Xl & limited 780TiL came after that & serve as sufficient proof that MSi can fix their mistake.

United States Lays says:

rtsurfer said: I am aware of 780L. The 290Xl & limited 780TiL came after that & serve as sufficient proof that MSi can fix their mistake.


Wait, the 290x Lightning had Samsung? I've only ever seen Hynix on those cards. Or atleast everyone I know, including the one I had was Hynix. Although mine clocked pretty high on rams, think I got to like 1650 or 1700 or something on air

Bulgaria I.nfraR.ed says:

As far as CPU pots go, I still use my F1EE and don't feel the need to ever replace it with something else.
Bought it used some years ago, together with extension and 2 mounting kits.
So, if you find a cheap used F1EE, I don't think you will be disappointed.
If you want to be a pro, then maybe you should get something a little better, but in my point of view - not worth it. Better invest the extra money in GPU pot(s).
F1EE is still a great pot even after all these years, but keep in mind I don't have X99 platform or any other big Intel CPUs, so I don't know how it handles 'em.

Of course I'm talking from the point of view of a person from the poorest country in EU.

United States rtsurfer says:

Lays said: Wait, the 290x Lightning had Samsung? I've only ever seen Hynix on those cards. Or atleast everyone I know, including the one I had was Hynix. Although mine clocked pretty high on rams, think I got to like 1650 or 1700 or something on air


Yes it had Samsung & you have it the other way around.
Very few people (some reviewers had Hynix), that's it.

I've had the card since launch, show me more than 2 people with Hynix.

United States Lays says:

rtsurfer said: Yes it had Samsung & you have it the other way around.
Very few people (some reviewers had Hynix), that's it.

I've had the card since launch, show me more than a 2 people with Hynix.


I had a refurb card I got off gunslinger, he had 2 or 3 that he was selling with refurb from MSI and I picked one up, then I believe Kingcry's has hynix too, I wonder if the LE versions got Hynix and I wonder if the one he sold me was an LE.

United States steponz says:

TiN said: As somebody says, you can even update your facebook while your rig with dark running 3Dmark physics :D
Dark is 3.1kg (6.8lbs). It's a great pot for today's hardware with coldbugs, you can keep temps within 2-3°C anytime, easy.

Venom is more like speedy pot for lowest temps, so you can go down quick, and stay there, or warmup quick if something go sour.
I liked benching with Venom even on X79/X99, it keeps you excited and jumpy, but if you novice and also have other things to worry about (e.g. GPU pots) - Dark is the way to go.
It crushes any beast with a snap :D


Exactly.......

United States steponz says:

rtsurfer said: All 290X Lightning had Samsung memory & I think the limited 780Ti Lightnings were too.(Not 100% sure, but probably.)

Sourcing Samsung Memory shouldn't be too hard for MSi. ;)


Who cares they would still have to figure a bunch more things and do a good implementation. Why bother with that when you have the perfect card available now.

MSI cards can be hit or miss.. with the nvidia implementation I don't see them doing it.
They get no support from Nvidia.. Doesn't seem like MSI wants to take risks anymore.

And it won't be any better than the Evga card.. Lots of work has went into this card.. and damn is it sexy... why would ya want anything else...

United States rtsurfer says:

Lays said: I had a refurb card I got off gunslinger, he had 2 or 3 that he was selling with refurb from MSI and I picked one up, then I believe Kingcry's has hynix too, I wonder if the LE versions got Hynix and I wonder if the one he sold me was an LE.


Pretty sure not all of GS cards were Hynix.
KingCry has Samsung, http://www.overclock.net/t/188400/overclock-net-hwbot-team/3280

So except you & some British reviewer whose name eludes me, there haven't been any Hynix 290XL. Heck one of the marketing slides for the card at launch had a comparison of frequency between Elipida, Hynix & Samsung. It showed Samsung was superior & that's why MSi was using it, sadly I have a hard time finding those slides.

But face it, 290XL was Samsung except for some obscure 1% of users.

steponz said: Who cares they would still have to figure a bunch more things and do a good implementation. Why bother with that when you have the perfect card available now.

MSI cards can be hit or miss.. with the nvidia implementation I don't see them doing it.
They get no support from Nvidia.. Doesn't seem like MSI wants to take risks anymore.

And it won't be any better than the Evga card.. Lots of work has went into this card.. and damn is it sexy... why would ya want anything else...


I agree with you both on the Hit & miss MSI thing & Evga/Vince's hardwork on the 980Ti KPE. But it is always good to have competition & options.

Plus the price is a bit too steep for some of us. If higher ASIC is more desirable for Ln2, there are ways for some of us to get a higher ASIC cards from a pool of random cards, without paying extra $200 over the regular KPE card for it.

United States steponz says:

Well what happens if you buy a card and you get a 60 asic.. your sol... so paying a bit extra to guarantee that you won't get that.. worth it in my book. I usually buy a couple of cards.. this would really save me to find that great card. Asic isn't a total guarantee, but it gives you a way better chance.. Competition is always good for the consumer.. and drives innovation....

United States rtsurfer says:

Since I can't think of a proper rebuttal against that, I have to say, I agree with you. :)

United States Random says:

Dont companies lightly bin for their highest end gpus? Might not be very likely to get low asic card. But just my 2 cents

GENiEBEN says:

steponz said: Competition is always good for the consumer.. and drives innovation....
What competition? Few more innovations like this 'uber-duper-project' and we'll move the entry point for hi-end cards at 1500 euro.

Belgium Massman says:

GENiEBEN said: What competition? Few more innovations like this 'uber-duper-project' and we'll move the entry point for hi-end cards at 1500 euro.


That's my main critique for this "ultimate oc project".

I would've loved to see EVGA go with an approach where those who want a specific bin can get one at a higher price and those who want to tweak/tune can do so at a lower price. The key value of a card like the KPE is the custom PCB and over-voltage tools for die-hard enthusiasts and of course the air cooler for the ambient overclockers.

Make a "redonkulous" SKU with the most rare ASIC bin and price it it five grand if you want. At that price, it all boils to service and presentation. In exchange, make an "overclockers" SKU which has the custom PCB and all tools, but is sharply priced so it's cheaper than any other AIB custom PCB. Present it so that this is the SKU that gives overclockers the option to get to the "redonkulous" sku performance through tweaking and overclocking.

As far as I can see, ALL KPE cards are more expensive. Some are just more expensive than others.

//edit: bonus prize, lower pricing pushes your competitors to go lower on price as well, driving ASP down while you still have your other SKUs at "better" price points.

//edit2: I am not trained in sales, so only comment based on my own ideas :celebration:

Italy RULE says:

I love the "ultimate oc project". Usually i'm feel not competitive in 3d against super binned card, not this time. Also the KPE is the only one fully unlocked, i really can't see an alternative. Just my 2c

K404 says:

With lucky sales, people could still bin "normal" cards and end up with the same ASIC for less money..... just not with eVGA cards because they *should* be well controlled :p All comes down to the trust a user puts in eVGA PCB+ software Vs Asus, MSI or even Galax. Gigabyte SOC has disappointed for a while. I wish Zotac and Colorful were pushing harder these days :(

Germany Dancop says:

I think zotac has a very strong pcb, but sadly not the tools, software and bios...it simply stands and falls with the development focus. And that's where zotac peferred gamers in the past, not oc. Maybe this changes soon

Norway knopflerbruce says:

K404 said: With lucky sales, people could still bin "normal" cards and end up with the same ASIC for less money..... just not with eVGA cards because they *should* be well controlled :p

All comes down to the trust a user puts in eVGA PCB+ software Vs Asus, MSI or even Galax. Gigabyte SOC has disappointed for a while.

I wish Zotac and Colorful were pushing harder these days :(


I had the same thought. If I were to buy a random card, I'd certainly not go EVGA now - as I know for sure all the bad ones are still there, but the good ones are gone (or at least many of them).

Not sure how much of a "backfire" it is, most people won't think this far (or care) when buying a GPU:p

Germany Dancop says:

Do you think they ball the gpu after binning????

United States rtsurfer says:

knopflerbruce said: Not sure how much of a "backfire" it is, most people won't think this far (or care) when buying a GPU:p
There was a lot of discussion about this on OCN forums. Trust me, this has not gone unnoticed by the enthusiast community. People who buy $650 GPUs aren't that ignorant. ;)

says:

I am not really sure how this will work out for EVGA and other vendors.
If we look at the large picture and not our community only ( which has "special" needs), I have a feeling that the vast majority of wealthy amateur consumers ( who are really A LOT ), will not like this approach.

Pretty sure that the marketing department of EVGA is a lot smarter than me, but who knows...
I see it as a bold move to show both the consumers and other vendors, who is the supposed king in Graphic cards.

Step a bit back and have a look at the forest and not the tree.
For millions worldwide that wish to play their favorite games in a big three screen setup with three or four high end graphic cards, does it really matter if the asic is 65% or 70% or 80% ???
I personally would not care.
Any game will be played 110% perfect in full quality settings at 4k with two Titans or two GTX980ti, not even overclocked.

So why bother fork out an extra 1000$ for four binned gpu's ???

We will have to wait and see...
The market is not us.
And the market does not forgive mistakes.

Just my 2 cents.

United States steponz says:

Wheres the backfire... they sold out in 5 minutes... lol... Would be good if there was an alternative.. but nobody else has put the work in.... so blame the companies that haven't done it.. not the one who has.......

United States Random says:

They could go with sli reference cards but "they like having the very best", "the kingpin looks the best", and " oh but its got the name of a pro on it"


I think there are enough idiots who buy premium just to have it, to perpetuate this sales strategy for a long time.

facts dont matter to these people. Its all about the e-peen.

Vince should sell them exclusively through kingpincooling xD


I think its become the go to 980Ti for everything.

Poland Xtreme Addict says:

I will just add one thing to this topic: Now imagine Intel starts to sell VID - binned CPUs, like low vid CPUs which most likely will OC better on air/wc and LN2 in 20-30% higher price. Would you ever buy "random" again considering chances of finding a good 4770K even in the beginning were very low... ? ;) The initiative is not bad and I wouldn't be very surprised if EVGA created a new trend in premium products with that card.

Germany Dancop says:

Guys...like Joseph stated...totally sold out within minutes! Here's your answer!

United States Random says:

Binned low voltage intel chips would be awesome, id overpay for that all day.

United States GtiJason says:

steponz said: I have all of them.. and thats pretty much the best all around pot.. so much mass to it.
Its so heavy... its crazy...

Thats the one I would start out with :)


I made the move a month ago to sub-zero and just went with the ek sf3d inflection point and triple pt mem pot. The mounting is strange and about half the time Im ready to power up nothing happens, I have to take it apart and remount cpu pot for better contact , plus the decision to use tiny allen screws on both pots was insane in my opinion. Have you used this one?if so any opinions on it

So heres the real ? Been looking at KP Dragon F1 Extreme Dark so I can be lazy w cpu and concentrate on mem timings, but not sure weather to get the plastic hold down version or anodized or does it even matter, they are the same price after all and is the price of 239 going lower this week

Australia newlife says:

GtiJason said:
So heres the real ? Been looking at KP Dragon F1 Extreme Dark so I can be lazy w cpu and concentrate on mem timings, but not sure weather to get the plastic hold down version or anodized or does it even matter, they are the same price after all and is the price of 239 going lower this week

Anodised because it has a metal hold down and is likely to last longer although it is far more likely to frost up

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