(Updated 06/11) Revised Moderation Guidelines Concerning 3DMark Verification Link (New Rules From December 1, 2014!)

Members of our community brought to our attention our benchmark validation regulations lack the specific requirements for validating Futuremark benchmarks with verification links for Global Top-20 results. In particular, there is no specific instruction for the SystemInfo component of said benchmark results. Previously we accepted benchmark submissions with SystemInfo disabled.

From December 1, 2014 it is no longer allowed to disable SystemInfo for the validation of Global Top-20 benchmark results. Benchmark submissions lacking this information will be invalidated by our Moderators and tagged as insufficient validation.

The main motivation is that we rely on the information provided by SystemInfo to verify the benchmark submission information. For example, we need the SystemInfo for benchmark submissions on Windows 8/8.1/10 operating systems. When SystemInfo is disabled we cannot verify this information.

The amendment to the rules only affects the Global Top-20 scores and competition submissions which require a verification link. We thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

The HWBOT Staff

(PS: download systeminfo here)

Update 06/11: as a result of the community discussion the revision of the moderation guidelines, we have updated the requirements for validation. All Futuremark legacy benchmarks are exempt from the System Info requirement. The legacy benchmarks include: 3DMark03, 3DMark05, 3DMark06 and PCMark05. Note that Windows 8/8.1/10 benchmark submissions still require a valid verfication link.


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Christian Ney says:

Please also make sure to uninstall all previous SI version to not create any conflict and to use the latest SI version. Scorefiles with an old SI version might get rejected by 3dmark.com.

United Kingdom 8 Pack says:

Legacy stuff works like crap with these SI. For modern benches its fine but for legacy stuff really!! Especially Win XP, Vista and 7 benching. SI NO NEED!!

Christian Ney says:

Futuremark is working on that compatibility issue

France Strat says:

I tried again with SI enabled big loss of point for 05 and 06.

Germany Moose83 says:

Thats why my 05 is so bad mh ^^

Christian Ney says:

Can you guys email me scorefiles at christian [at] hwbot.org that shows this loss/difference? Legacy benchmark + Old SI Legacy benchmark + New SI Legacy benchmark + New SI Disabled Same System, OS, Setup, Clocks. This will help solve the issue. Thanks.

South Africa Vivi says:

the loss is only from some shaved os's, you can get it working without the loss in score

United States steponz says:

uggghh.. time to get pissed when you lose a good bench because si screwed up... happens way too much for bs reasons... I think this needs to be looked at and done a better way.. because most top scores are done without it.. if so... an they can't be beat.. thats kind of a bummer...

Christian Ney says:

Vivi said: the loss is only from some shaved os's, you can get it working without the loss in score


Mind to elaborate/share?

steponz said: uggghh.. time to get pissed when you lose a good bench because si screwed up... happens way too much for bs reasons... I think this needs to be looked at and done a better way.. because most top scores are done without it.. if so... an they can't be beat.. thats kind of a bummer...


If FM doesn't manage to fix it and there is no solution, we will adjust the rule for legacy/affected benchmarks or come with a solution.

Philippines dhenzjhen says:

Christian Ney said:

If FM doesn't manage to fix it and there is no solution, we will adjust the rule for legacy/affected benchmarks or come with a solution.



Wondering why not wait for FM first before making this new rule live to public?

Germany Moose83 says:

Fm dont care anymore legacy :D If this cant be fixed, only 2 solutions... ban all scores without SI or allow no SI :p

Australia Dinos22 says:

Christian Ney said: Futuremark is working on that compatibility issue


Futuremark has been aware of problems for years yet we still had SI validation problems, no doubt fingers will be pointed elsewhere when someone has an issue subbing their hard earnt WR because SI messed something up again.....

United Kingdom 8 Pack says:

No SI for legacy but no Win 8 or 10 to run. All other benches Vantage Onwards need SI. Simple and fine rule.

For me on legacy SI has messed up both scores and validation so many times I now never run it.

SI makes some legacy very inconsistent in scoring also so you cant accurately test driver tweaks etc as SI is swinging the result alot.

If u guys insist on full implementation wait for tried and tested fix first.

says:

We will go with whatever HWBOT implement, but from personal experience I've lost so many scores from system info and rarely if ever has it happened for no system info

Earlier this year we lost two 3dmark 03 records because something went bad with system info, however on air it all validated OK

It would be good if benchmarks earlier than Vantage were excluded, we can deal with Vantage+ having SI as it seems more stable

United Kingdom 8 Pack says:

Agree with Pro!!

Romania Monstru says:

I for one agree with both of you. It would be nice though if Futuremark would actually do something about this...

zeropluszero says:

Whether massman will listen to anyone or just do as he pleases is anyone's guess

Belgium Massman says:

zeropluszero said: Whether massman will listen to anyone or just do as he pleases is anyone's guess


Hm?

Christian Ney is Head of Moderating. In this, his wish is my command :).

Greece sofos1990 says:

I'm not against SI but at the time you guys want to do it it's a little akward. Some guys have already benched with 980s without SI and maybe it's unfair for the others. You can say that SI will be mandatory from next vga ganeration so everyone has same chances.

Uruguay andressergio says:

Agree with Monstru...and mostly all

United States VSG says:

I may not be one affected by this anytime soon, but I also think this is a move coming in before FM does it's part- especially with the news of them having being bought by another company: http://ul.com/newsroom/pressreleases/ul-signals-strategic-expansion-into-performance-benchmarking-services-with-futuremark-acquisition/

Who's to say priorities won't change? Hopefully not, but with so many variables I think changing is not the best idea.

Christian Ney says:

Revision of the revision incoming :)

United States Gunslinger says:

sofos1990 said: I'm not against SI but at the time you guys want to do it it's a little akward. Some guys have already benched with 980s without SI and maybe it's unfair for the others. You can say that SI will be mandatory from next vga ganeration so everyone has same chances.
I think you need to time it with the next CPU generation instead, as that is really what matters with the legacy benches. :celebration:

Poland Xtreme Addict says:

That't what I offered to Roman. Give it with new CPU generation ;)

says:

Really all we introduce by having a vantage + si is 3d11

Most use w8 for 3dmark FS/fse and vantage si can't be disabled

I am happy to start running 11 with si however as Sof said it puts those that haven't benched at a disadvantage

United States jpmboy says:

Yeah, Just a novice here... but the relevancy of a shaved OS producing benchmark scores incapable of being validated because components of the benchmark have been altered or removed is very questionable IMO. One could simply remove those benchmarks that are so antiquated that they require using an OS that is 2-3 gens old which cannot support a contemporary surveillance module running in the background. Don't get me wrong, the Bot is a blast, but benchmarking with 2001SE for points when Fire Strike Ultra earns none, is not very forward looking.

United States Mr.Scott says:

jpmboy said: Yeah, Just a novice here... but the relevancy of a shaved OS producing benchmark scores incapable of being validated because components of the benchmark have been altered or removed is very questionable IMO. One could simply remove those benchmarks that are so antiquated that they require using an OS that is 2-3 gens old which cannot support a contemporary surveillance module running in the background. Don't get me wrong, the Bot is a blast, but benchmarking with 2001SE for points when Fire Strike Ultra earns none, is not very forward looking.


Sooo......what about the thousands of legacy cards that are incapable of benching FSU? :rolleyes:

zeropluszero says:

jpmboy said: Yeah, Just a novice here... but the relevancy of a shaved OS producing benchmark scores incapable of being validated because components of the benchmark have been altered or removed is very questionable IMO. One could simply remove those benchmarks that are so antiquated that they require using an OS that is 2-3 gens old which cannot support a contemporary surveillance module running in the background. Don't get me wrong, the Bot is a blast, but benchmarking with 2001SE for points when Fire Strike Ultra earns none, is not very forward looking.


Says he who has never submitted 3dmark 01?

United States jpmboy says:

and my timex sinclair 1000? what about it? both look backwards. and rolleyes too.

United States jpmboy says:

C'mon guys. So I don't do 13 year old graphic benchmarks that run on your cpu. If i still had my rig from then, I would. lol. If those benchmarks were limited to the hardware within several years of its time, fine.

Australia alancsalt says:

Wouldn't there be more ppls running FSE than '01? Curious how big a following for older cards...

Belgium Massman says:

jpmboy said: Yeah, Just a novice here... but the relevancy of a shaved OS producing benchmark scores incapable of being validated because components of the benchmark have been altered or removed is very questionable IMO. One could simply remove those benchmarks that are so antiquated that they require using an OS that is 2-3 gens old which cannot support a contemporary surveillance module running in the background. Don't get me wrong, the Bot is a blast, but benchmarking with 2001SE for points when Fire Strike Ultra earns none, is not very forward looking.


I agree with you mostly, in the sense that it's kind of weird to still have this benchmark around for Global Points. The older cards have their Hardware Points, that's fine, but I guess global doesn't make that much sense anymore. :)

The thing about 3DMark01 though, is that a lot of overclockers have a nostalgic view on the benchmark. The same with SuperPI actually.

alancsalt said: Wouldn't there be more ppls running FSE than '01? Curious how big a following for older cards...


There are some numbers on the site actually:

- 3DMark01: 331 submissions this month
- 3DMark Fire Strike: 592 submissions this month
- 3DMark Fire Strike Extreme: 323 submissions this month

zeropluszero says:

Go ahead, remove 01 and superpi. lets see how that goes for web traffic.

Romania suzuki says:

I don't think the web traffic will change,but many oc-ers which love this 3dmark2001 will have another reason to dislike benching. You don't see the point in having globals on this 3dmark,but you give globals on the same benchmark ,twice(fire strike,catzilla ...etc) i don't know how this qualifies as right. Remove globals from either FS or FSE and you will see how popular that benchmark is.

Romania Alex@ro says:

Wondering why people play soccer which is the same game as 30 years ago.... If one knows how to bench 2001 and spi properly other benches will fly.

Australia Bullant says:

Alex@ro said: Wondering why people play soccer which is the same game as 30 years ago....

If one knows how to bench 2001 and spi properly other benches will fly.


Total agree with you Alex

Romania Monstru says:

What he said!

Germany der8auer says:

There is no disadvantage in having more benches on the bot. You only need top 15 global and top 20 hardware for your profile. If you don't like 01 or 03 - fine. Just stick to new benchmarks. There is more than enough so everybody can pick what he likes. I see no point in disabling points of old benchmarks or even removing them.

United States jpmboy says:

Go ahead, remove 01 and superpi. lets see how that goes for web traffic.

If it's new traffic as a metric, and again looking forward, more reason to keep pace with contemporary benchmarks. An 01 score with an 8800 is not what attracts new members (or corp adverts)or site hits - and you know that. It is the top guys wringing the krap out of the newest hardware in the benchmarks that have instruction sets that actually use the new architecture. Vintage racing vs F1. Soccer? The field is the boundary of the game (eg hwbot.org). Barefoot or cleats? both can play, but not on the same field together.

Romania Monstru says:

01 with 8800 attracts pasionate overclockers. You can PR bench 3-4 guys at the top in new benchmarks as much as you wish - you will only loose the interest of a large part of the community. Do the corp adverts want that?

United States jpmboy says:

That's all good for sure. Adverts only concern is whether the audience/demographic buys their product/service, passionate for vintage stuff or not. The site-head has a tough decision is his/her lap. That's for sure.
BTW - I actually do vintage race my '66 Healey BJ8... and SCCA a ZR-1. Both clubs have passionate members... and The Healey club is always more refractory to change. Just an empirical observation. :-) Bench what you got and [bold]Enjoy[/bold].

Australia JJJC says:

It makes sense to keep benches like SuperPi and 01 with global points because there is nothing to replace them. Firestrike is not a replacement for 01, they work entirely differently. They are challenging benchmarks and deserve to be rewarded as so. They are not benched purely for a nostalgic feeling.

United Kingdom TheMadDutchDude says:

Just because you don't choose to run the bench as it is an old one, doesn't mean we should all suffer. 3DM01 takes a great deal of skill and tweaking, and as such is one of the most preferred 3D benches as there's just a seemingly unlimited amount of tweaking potential. Sure, most just run it with their average tweaks and call it a day, but others spend weeks or months on it to find the best possible combo. I for one don't tweak it to death, I use my set of tweaks that I've learned from the likes of Vivi and other well respected overclockers, and roll with it. I will no doubt further my 3DM01 knowledge as and when the time comes, but for now... I'm pretty happy with it.

Belgium Massman says:

Update 06/11: as a result of the community discussion the revision of the moderation guidelines, we have updated the requirements for validation. All Futuremark legacy benchmarks are exempt from the System Info requirement. The legacy benchmarks include: 3DMark03, 3DMark05, 3DMark06 and PCMark05. Note that Windows 8/8.1/10 benchmark submissions still require a valid verfication link.

Romania Monstru says:

So no need for SI on 2k3, 2k5 and 2k6.

But...what about Windows 8/8.1/10? Weren't those banned from HWBot?

GENiEBEN says:

Monstru said: So no need for SI on 2k3, 2k5 and 2k6. But...what about Windows 8/8.1/10? Weren't those banned from HWBot?
? "Note that Windows 8/8.1/10 benchmark submissions still require a valid verfication link."

Romania Monstru says:

No man, I asked this because I saw a post of Massman's on HWBot where he said that Win 8/8.1/10 are banned from HWBot because of the BCLK trick. Is that still the case or not?

GENiEBEN says:

Monstru said: No man, I asked this because I saw a post of Massman's on HWBot where he said that Win 8/8.1/10 are banned from HWBot because of the BCLK trick. Is that still the case or not?
It's ok to use with 3Dmark's that have SI 4.24+, and also with XTU. Also some exceptions such as locked platforms (notebooks i.e). etc.

Romania Monstru says:

Is there a list of those exceptions?

United Kingdom 8 Pack says:

Great decision guys!! Appreciate you listening on this one.

Philippines dhenzjhen says:

Thanks u manmass (y) but how about 01SE?

Belgium Massman says:

dhenzjhen said: Thanks u manmass (y) but how about 01SE?


Thank Christian ;)

What about 3DMark01?

Philippines dhenzjhen says:

Massman said: Thank Christian ;)

What about 3DMark01?



Nice finally C.ney had a break from blocking scores :D :p

You didn't mention 01 here? http://forum.hwbot.org/showpost.php?p=343485&postcount=44

Belgium Massman says:

Oh, because you can't even get verification links for 3DMark01 anymore.

Belgium Massman says:

Monstru said: No man, I asked this because I saw a post of Massman's on HWBot where he said that Win 8/8.1/10 are banned from HWBot because of the BCLK trick. Is that still the case or not?


Due to severe validity problems with the Windows8 real time clock (“RTC”), not all benchmarks results achieved with Windows8 can be trusted. The main problem lies with the RTC being affected when over- or underclocking under the operating system. The operating system uses the RTC as reference clock, and benchmarks use it to reference (benchmark) time. Refer to our original coverage article for more detailed information. The restrictions for Windows 8 due to the RTC bug can be found below.
[list]
Existing Windows 8 based benchmark submissions will be blocked if seemingly out of line or world record or top score.
Existing Windows 8 based benchmark submissions will not be blocked or removed if they were made on an AMD system (New ones will be clocked)
[/list]
Exceptions to the Windows 8 rule:
[list]Non-overclockable notebooks may be used in combination with Windows 8
Intel XTU from v4.2.0.8 and up
[/list]


http://hwbot.org/article/general_rules

Romania Monstru says:

I understand so basically 3DM and PCM with SI, and XTU are ok on Windows 8.

Belgium Massman says:

Yup!

Poland Xtreme Addict says:

Regarding Legacy rule - good. Only question regarding 3D11, it gains boost in multigpu when you disable SI. Maybe it's worth to introduce new rule when new gen of GPUs appear?

United Kingdom ObscureParadox says:

Xtreme Addict said: Regarding Legacy rule - good.

Only question regarding 3D11, it gains boost in multigpu when you disable SI. Maybe it's worth to introduce new rule when new gen of GPUs appear?


There would be too many exceptions to the rule to make it understandable for the rookies imho if we were to make more exceptions to the rule.

Christian Ney says:

Yes if we start to make exceptions for everything it's gonna be one hell of a mess to follow and moderate (both the moderation team and members).

GENiEBEN says:

Yup, let's start removing all odd numbered scores :D

Christian Ney says:

"thank you" That's something I havent heard in a long time

United States MrBreeze says:

jjjc said: It makes sense to keep benches like SuperPi and 01 with global points because there is nothing to replace them. Firestrike is not a replacement for 01, they work entirely differently. They are challenging benchmarks and deserve to be rewarded as so. They are not benched purely for a nostalgic feeling.


This.

United States jpmboy says:

Good call.

Just because you don't choose to run the bench as it is an old one, doesn't mean we should all suffer. 3DM01 takes a great deal of skill and tweaking, and as such is one of the most preferred 3D benches as there's just a seemingly unlimited amount of tweaking potential. Sure, most just run it with their average tweaks and call it a day, but others spend weeks or months on it to find the best possible combo. I for one don't tweak it to death, I use my set of tweaks that I've learned from the likes of Vivi and other well respected overclockers, and roll with it. I will no doubt further my 3DM01 knowledge as and when the time comes, but for now... I'm pretty happy with it.
daaaum, I hope you're not spending weeks or months trying to figure out SE01. Jk. enjoy.

Belarus max1024 says:

I do not understand about 3DM 2001 which is not in Legacy list. Whats about it?

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