Poll: What 3DMark Preset Should Get Global Points? UPDATE 11/06: Global Points Enabled For 3DMark Fire Strike

Following Futuremark's announcement of the new 3DMark Sky Diver benchmark, we are hosting a poll to check the community's interest for enabling global (and world record) points for another 3DMark preset. Currently only Fire Strike Extreme is available for HWBoints. Anyone with a minimum of 5 submissions and registered since yesterday can vote for any number of the benchmark presets.

You can find the poll in the sidebar on the right (not the image!).

Update: based on the results from the poll, we have the following results.

User Pct. Poll Option
58.29%Fire Strike
36.90%Cloud Gate
29.95%Sky Diver
24.06%Ice Storm Extreme
22.46%Ice Storm
16.04%None of the above
15.51%Ice Storm Unlimited


We will enable WR, GL and HW points for 3DMark Fire Strike. For the other benchmarks we will start a new poll to decide if hardware points should be added or not. The poll will be available in the sidebar shortly!


59

Belgium Massman says:

Looking forward to the community opinion! :)

says:

i can't find the poll but id say no firestrike, its too similar to 11/vantage, gpu bound in single, but a cpu benchmark in multicard

i think we have to rule out ice storm unlimited because its a bit silly to run on a PC

id say cloud gate might be the best, but i am not so sure we need another 3dmark preset at this stage, might be best to see how skydiver develops and maybe reconsider again later

Belgium Massman says:


Germany Moose83 says:

^^ We allready have to much Benchmarks! If enable new benches, we have to close some other, like not having 2 Cinebench;) Im missing the Option, yes, but disable other benches... How to bench all Benchmarks now with 1 card, impossible... We allready need 2 Sessions t get them all on 1 card :(

TaPaKaH says:

+1 for there being too many benchmarks.

Here's another unpopular opinion:
01, 05, 06 and AM3 have basically been CPU benchmarks in the last couple of years. Why not pull globals for some of those?

Belgium Massman says:

We can have another poll about removing global points later I suppose.

Germany Moose83 says:

No Sam! 3DM01-06 cant be disable too much fun :p

Canada P_6_Canuck says:

Well I like benchmarking so add'em all as far as I'm concerned, not that my card can handle all that much nonetheless still fun.

United States Gunslinger says:

none, put a wrapper on Unigine Valley. :) and do away with Aquamark

Greece TASOS says:

Let's wait a bit and see how it goes with sky diver.

Either way , i would prefer one of those two.

Sky Diver, for gaming laptops and mid-range PCs (DirectX 11, feature level 11)
Cloud Gate, for notebooks and typical home PCs (DirectX 11 feature level 10)

GENiEBEN says:

Ice Storm, so us fools benchmarking phones, tablets and notebooks can get some points and not just stare 24/7 at 780Ti scores one after another.

Finland Alatar says:

Wait until we see how SkyDiver runs (very CPU limited?) and make the decision after that. Definitely not cloud gate because SkyDiver is supposed to be "replacing" it in the sense that it's targeted at the same demographic but includes a more up to date feature set. (CG is feature level 10). If some decision had to be made right now I'd say just do firestrike. Other than that I somewhat agree with the notion that there are probably too many benchmarks already.

South Africa Vivi says:

(Restricted to: users with at least 5 submissions) (pick 6)

why the hell can we pick all six!

Greece TASOS says:

Vivi said: (Restricted to: users with at least 5 submissions) (pick 6)

why the hell can we pick all six!



Now that you wrote so ...
Are the poll options correct ???


Example of voting

Ice Storm

Ice Storm Extreme X

Ice Storm Unlimited X

Cloud Gate X

Sky Diver X

Fire Strike X

None of the above X [COLOR="Red"]<== ???[/COLOR]

./

Germany der8auer says:

If we enable globals we should also enable hardware-points. As we are talking about getting rid of benchmarks we should consider: - PCMark2005 (nobody benchs it anymore and I think I don't have to deeper on the problems) - Consider removing both, hardware and global points - Aquamark - remove globals

Belgium Massman says:

PCMark2005 has issues?

Belgium Massman says:

Fyi, might be good to revisit this idea too: http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=62091

Germany Moose83 says:

Why disable Pcmark 05 completly Roman? Problem is that mod of Bench does nothing also dont answer questions :(

Romania suzuki says:

Don't ever disable points to this legacy benchmarks :
- 3DMark 2001
- 3DMark 2003
- 3DMark 2005
- 3DMark 2006
- Aquamark
- 3DMark Vantage

If you do,many will leave this site.These ones will live forever,not everybody has money to change hardware every day to keep in trend with latest 3dmarks.
Another thing is if you let it up to vote to the new ones,the generation "press the run button and wait" ,they will select only bunnyextractionty ones and they will never know the pleasure of oc-ing.

South Africa QuantumX says:

None of the above if it's gonna mean another multithreaded benchmark where X79 and 4930K dominates.

Would rather have something more like AM3 3DMark01 03 05 and 06 where mainstream CPU's are competitive to resist this trend where we need 3000$ hardware for 3D benching.

Or even worse as posted recently on the frontpage, "Unlocked 18-core Xeons could possibly have a dramatic effect on the overclocking community as these would unlikely to be sold at an affordable price point. The most expensive Intel Xeon CPU today sports 15 cores and comes at a price of (hold on to your chairs) EUR €5,500. Just imagine a system with one overclockable 18-core CPU and two GeForce GTX Titan-Z graphics cards"

^^ This makes me not sleep at night

Germany Moose83 says:

@Pcmark, more people would bench it when Moderator will change! Thats actually Problem why all stop it ;) mod should be there for questions and moderating but Pro does nothing of it :(

Belgium Massman says:

QuantumX said: None of the above if it's gonna mean another multithreaded benchmark where X79 and 4930K dominates.

Would rather have something more like AM3 3DMark01 03 05 and 06 where mainstream CPU's are competitive to resist this trend where we need 3000$ hardware for 3D benching.

Or even worse as posted recently on the frontpage, "Unlocked 18-core Xeons could possibly have a dramatic effect on the overclocking community as these would unlikely to be sold at an affordable price point. The most expensive Intel Xeon CPU today sports 15 cores and comes at a price of (hold on to your chairs) EUR €5,500. Just imagine a system with one overclockable 18-core CPU and two GeForce GTX Titan-Z graphics cards"

^^ This makes me not sleep at night


Might want to read through these threads:

- http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=98951
- http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=100125

South Africa QuantumX says:

Massman said: Might want to read through these threads:

- http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=98951
- http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=100125


I guess in the end this really isn't HWBot's fault. Futuremark obviously targets their benchmarks at the lastest and most expensive hardware...

So I respect the HWBot management team for actually trying to resolve this with the new Divisions system and trying to keep everyone happy.

But it's hard to cast a vote for this poll while the current system is still in place. With the Divisions system in place I would vote for all of these benchmarks to get points. :D

As long as legacy 3DMark doesn't get removed I'm happy :D

says:

Yes problem of pcmark is bad moderation, whoever is in charge of that should be banned from hwbot If we drop anything it should be probably be one cinebench, one catzilla (although both presets are very different) and pcmark05. AM3 is the only legacy option the rest of those legacies are highly tweakable and have a lot to offer 06, 01 and even 05 can be won with more than raw clocks, although 05 is mainly CPU clock I love the idea of considering the other heaven benchmark

says:

Moose83 said: @Pcmark, more people would bench it when Moderator will change! Thats actually Problem why all stop it ;) mod should be there for questions and moderating but Pro does nothing of it :(


Sure no problem for me, the issue for me is I am out of touch with this benchmark, since I stopped benching it and started moderating a lot has changed, I don't know the right decision all the time

I think youd be an awesome pcmark mod moose

Australia zeropluszero says:

Voting for removal of AM3 Superpi 1M Both wPrime Pifast Catzilla 1440P Heaven Basic 1x Cinebench XTU (yep, I said it) PCMark05 Voting for addition of Unigine Valley

GENiEBEN says:

zeropluszero said: Voting for removal of

AM3


[IMG]https://db.tt/LavWBlGo[/IMG]

Germany Moose83 says:

pro said: Sure no problem for me, the issue for me is I am out of touch with this benchmark, since I stopped benching it and started moderating a lot has changed, I don't know the right decision all the time

I think youd be an awesome pcmark mod moose



I would do it when it help to keep the bench :)

Christian Ney says:

Alright, lts put an end to the pcmark debate, back to topic thanks. There are already too many other threads where you can debate about it.

Russian Federation _12_ says:

None of the above

K404 says:

None of the above. Reasoning: Ice Storm (all presets) is a CPU benchmark Cloud Gate is a multi-threaded CPU benchmark at medium GPU power (top-end I have no idea) Fire Strike is irrelevant because of FS-X Sky Diver is unproven. Good rule: NEVER allow global points soon after release. Let a benchmark mature, let Genie break it a few times :D Off-topic but gonna say it..... I think it's time for some old 3D benchmarks to lose global and WR points.

Italy Stermy57 says:

zeropluszero said: Voting for removal of

AM3
Superpi 1M
Both wPrime
Pifast
Catzilla 1440P
Heaven Basic
1x Cinebench
XTU (yep, I said it)
PCMark05

Voting for addition of
Unigine Valley

Yes, wonderful
Than we can run together only niubb xtu on our core i7 platform!-.-
Sorry this is not an aggressive answer
However I think that this request is crazy really crazy

Italy Stermy57 says:

suzuki said: Don't ever disable points to this legacy benchmarks :
- 3DMark 2001
- 3DMark 2003
- 3DMark 2005
- 3DMark 2006
- Aquamark
- 3DMark Vantage

If you do,many will leave this site.These ones will live forever,not everybody has money to change hardware every day to keep in trend with latest 3dmarks.
Another thing is if you let it up to vote to the new ones,the generation "press the run button and wait" ,they will select only bunnyextractionty ones and they will never now the pleasure of oc-ing.


I believe this is a great song!
Old 3dmark and old 2d bench like pcmark superpi, pifast and wprime are BENCHMARKS!

Germany Moose83 says:

They are good Benchmarks! :D

United States Strong Island says:

I know it's not an option and i hate to say it and get off topic but I would love unigine valley. That bench is a lot of fun and not cpu dependent at all. None of the other presets interest me except firestrike but really it's the same bench as extreme just less intensive. We already have a ton of 3dmark benches a different bench would be nice.

Australia zeropluszero says:

GENiEBEN said: [IMG]https://db.tt/LavWBlGo[/IMG]

comeatmebro.jpg
K404 said: Off-topic but gonna say it..... I think it's time for some old 3D benchmarks to lose global and WR points.

Yes. Starting and ending with AM3
Stermy57 said: Yes, wonderful
Than we can run together only niubb xtu on our core i7 platform!-.-
Sorry this is not an aggressive answer
However I think that this request is crazy really crazy

What?

You mean, its awesome, and just crazy enough to work?

Australia t8y says:

voted none of the above.

all rubbish in their own special way.


/awaits release of icecloudfirediverstorm extreme unlimited test, i'd totally vote for that.
dilute the tests even more FM, we love it

United States Witchdoctor. says:

Leave it alone,

Anything else in the 2013 version is a moot point.

There are already plenty of 3D benches for all groups of hardware as is.

Possibly when the next gen 3D mark comes out take a peek at that.

Belgium Massman says:

Updated the news post with the voting poll results. Nearly 60% of the users want global points for 3DMark Fire Strike; none of the other benchmarks hit 50% approval rate. We will add the points for Fire Strike shortly.

We'll add a new poll shortly to check which should get hardware points.

Australia zeropluszero says:

Can you start a poll to remove it? What is the difference between fs and fse? Really now. This is ridiculous.

says:

I can I understand people voted for it, but now we just have another CPU test, not a great outcome

United States cowgut says:

yeah james but we had and still have 3d 01 03 05 06 for years and they are no more then a cpu test sorta.
well what i mean is a higher cpu speed always beats a higher gpu speed so its more of the same just newer testing that can be "controlled" a little better

Finland FM_Jarnis says:

pro said: I can I understand people voted for it, but now we just have another CPU test, not a great outcome


We'll try to get you a new non-CPU test even for 4xGPU overclocked rigs soon enough, complete with some brand new shiny DX12... Our artists have already been hard at work on it for a while... I promise that at least the extreme preset will melt yer GPUs, no matter how many you have :)

Sadly the performance range of DX11-capable hardware is just so ridiculously wide these days.

At the low end, DX11 Windows 8 tablets manage something like 5% of the performance of a fast single-GPU system. Then fast quad-GPU systems are obviously almost four times that. Then you add overclocking and exotic cooling and perhaps double that... There is absolutely no way to do a GPU-bound test that runs on two setups when the faster one is something like 150 times faster than the slow one.

3DMark tries to cover all bases and yes, only the Fire Strike Extreme preset is heavy enough for 4x GPU monsters.

Anyway, DX12 might actually help with this quite a bit due to reduced driver overhead - it should be possible to go for far higher framerates before DirectX and the drivers max out the CPU even on a scene that was specifically designed to be light on the CPU.

Belgium Massman says:

pro said: I can I understand people voted for it, but now we just have another CPU test, not a great outcome


It doesn't really change that much; still top-15 global and top-20 hardware matters.

says:

Thanks Jarnis, actually FS-E is still really good in multi card configs and we can't expect Futuremark benchmarks to be GPU bound forever

Reduced driver overhead is exciting for NVIDIA guys, maybe NVIDIA has a chance in more than extreme presets for once in a long time

Slovenia tiborrr says:

None of the above. I also vote for removal of global points for: - AM3 - 3DM'01 - 3DM'05 - 3DM'06 - XTU (proprietary benchmark) I would very much welcome Unigine Valley :)

Germany Moose83 says:

If 3Dm01-06 and Aquamark gets remove no one will care to bench for Hwbot anymore :( Xtu im also for remove it only runs on my Laptop :p

Slovenia tiborrr says:

Make no mistake, I am a long time '01SE fan, probably majority of my 3D results are '01 anyway. But lately this is a 2D benchmark only. New generation AMD R9 290X cannot even run it under Windows XP so what's the point? Presumably, next gen Maxwell will not support it either. Given the situation these benchmarks should become 100% hardware masters benchmarks.

Germany Moose83 says:

If this happen and only expensive Systems need im out and much more :( Who whants 290X for 3Dm01 :D

Australia zeropluszero says:

yeh Genie, how is that Unigine Valley wrapper going???

Slovenia tiborrr says:

The problem is that the hardware had outgrown the benchmarks. All of these benchmarks are now literally 2D benchmarks when you plug in a strong enough graphics card. Only Nature score changes and perhaps a few of the High tests are noticeably impacted. For example, AMD cards aren't making any progress in 3DM01SE since the 5000 series, the new architecture is aimed towards best peformance in new graphic environments. Unigine is a fantastic benchmark, there's no need for expensive CPU, you just need enough dedication, good will and persistence and a wildly overclocked graphics card for a great score. This is a true definition of a 3D benchmark.

Germany der8auer says:

No worries, nobody will just remove legacy and classic benchmarks like 3DMark06

Finland FM_Jarnis says:

tiborrr said:
Unigine is a fantastic benchmark, there's no need for expensive CPU, you just need enough dedication, good will and persistence and a wildly overclocked graphics card for a great score. This is a true definition of a 3D benchmark.


If you want that, you should use Graphics Score from 3DMark instead of Overall Score.

Fire Strike Extreme graphics score is 100% about the GPU (and perhaps driver overhead)

Slovenia tiborrr says:

Nobody said anything about removing the benchmarks, that's taking things out of context. But '05 and AM3 are becoming too obvious to ignore. I think we all agree it's fairly motivational to see your 05 or AM3 score being surpassed by a guy with stock cooled graphics card and an overpowered CPU. This has nothing to do with tweaking but rather CPU brute force. Heck, even a correct OS brings more to the table than the GPU clockspeed. Hence, these are in reality '2D' benchmarks.

Germany der8auer says:

That might apply for the latest generation of GPUs but don't forget that we have a huge database with a big variety of old GPUs. Everything from GTX4xx and lower is getting more and more GPU-limited. So in fact only the latest GPUs turn the legacy benchmarks into "2D" benchmarks but 99% of the rest is still GPU-limited.

Slovenia tiborrr says:

True. That is why global points system for these old benchmarks is becoming obsolete. #1 8800 GT in 3DM'01 is still worth 50 global points and people will still bench those benchmarks when you disable the global (or at least WR) points.

Finland Alatar says:

der8auer said: That might apply for the latest generation of GPUs but don't forget that we have a huge database with a big variety of old GPUs. Everything from GTX4xx and lower is getting more and more GPU-limited. So in fact only the latest GPUs turn the legacy benchmarks into "2D" benchmarks but 99% of the rest is still GPU-limited.


Which means that those who compete for global points in those benches are basically benching a 2d bench.

So global points for those benches in the 3d bench category do not make any sense at all since they're not 3d benches for the systems that get those global points. Nothing wrong with hardware points but there's something wrong when you're only getting a ton of global points in a 3d bench by benching it like a 2d bench.

Honestly even in FSE it's hard to compete without SB-E/IB-E. You take a couple of hundred overall points penalty if you run say Haswell. Who knows what'll happen once we move to Haswell-E and the 8-core monsters.

Imo it'd be really important to have at least some pure 3d benches to accompany the crapton of 2d benches. Personally count me in the Valley camp. Really awesome bench for pure GPU benching.

Romania suzuki says:

tiborrr said: True. That is why global points system for these old benchmarks is becoming obsolete.

#1 8800 GT in 3DM'01 is still worth 50 global points and people will still bench those benchmarks when you disable the global (or at least WR) points.


I dunno where you are looking,but the best sub with 8800 gt 512 is worth 8 global points...
http://hwbot.org/submission/2375094_amateurs_3dmark2001_se_geforce_8800_gt_512_mb_131210_marks

yeah,disable al the tweakable benches,power to the generation of "press the run button".
I think in the future will be less oc-ing,i already see how everything is going towards "newer is better" and it's more easy to obtain a WR beeing a noob with a lot of money.

Slovenia tiborrr says:

Suzuki, sorry, the whole time i was talking about 'hardware' points, hardware masters and hardware master benchmarks. This was a typo. And also, 3DM01SE is a far cry from a tweakable benchmark for the last couple of years. Been running it competitively since ~ 2006.

Which means that those who compete for global points in those benches are basically benching a 2d bench. So global points for those benches in the 3d bench category do not make any sense at all since they're not 3d benches for the systems that get those global points. Nothing wrong with hardware points but there's something wrong when you're only getting a ton of global points in a 3d bench by benching it like a 2d bench. Honestly even in FSE it's hard to compete without SB-E/IB-E. You take a couple of hundred overall points penalty if you run say Haswell. Who knows what'll happen once we move to Haswell-E and the 8-core monsters. Imo it'd be really important to have at least some pure 3d benches to accompany the crapton of 2d benches. Personally count me in the Valley camp. Really awesome bench for pure GPU benching.
Agreed to the fullest. But at least FSE is closer to 3DM'11 regarding CPU dependancy than 3DMV.

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