Important: general HWBOT rules updated

Important: general HWBOT rules updated

Dear Overclocking Community,

This small news post is to inform you that we have added a new rule to the general HWBOT usage rules.

“Since HWBOT does not tolerate the sale of benchmark scores, the act of both selling or buying benchmark scores and uploading them to this database is not allowed. In addition, we strongly believe that no overclocker who is involved in this kind of business should be allowed to be part of the community. Therefore HWBOT will remove any overclocker who buys and/or sells benchmark scores from the rankings and will give this user a lifetime ban.”

The entire HWBOT staff hopes that this rule will never have to be put in action.

Best regards,

The HWBOT Staff.


59

TaPaKaH says:

Interesting, why do you have to bring this up?

Belgium Gamer says:

Someone will loose his income it seems :)

United States steponz says:

I find it pretty pathetic that someone would have to buy benchmark scores.

Definitely a good rule, really surprises me people do this....

Norway knopflerbruce says:

How much for a nice K8 score?:D

United States Mr.Scott says:

Dam.........I'm gonna need a second job now.:D

United Kingdom El Gappo says:

knopflerbruce said: How much for a nice K8 score?:D


HAHAHAH

Seriously tho.. When did this start happening? I really don't see the point :/ ________ Herbalaire Vaporizer

Mexico Solid Snake - XS says:

How much for a LN2 score on Pentium 4 ? xD

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

Do you really think this rule update is the most important one? There's a number of bugs and holes in the rules and you close the silly ones. Sad, you know :(

So no more adena, oh, I mean golden cups for real money? LOL.
You'd better work on more serious cases IMHO.

Belgium Massman says:

No we don't think this is the most important one. It's just an addendum to the rules and we felt it was necessary to update the community that we added this to the rules. But hey, just let me know when it's no longer necessary to give you guys a heads up about new rules ;)

Colombia e-Killer says:

Well i wanted to buy Score for Lords of Overclocking, :( xD

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

How about letting us know about codec and browser changing in PCMark05? ;) If my friends didn't help me, I'd be banned :) Cause I suggest this as a tweak. A there's much of similar stuff. What I want is an up-to-date rules page, no more, no less ;) When I can open it up and find out what is and what is not allowed today without hours of conversations with friends, moderators (that rarely write back ;)) and forums searching. I don't think this is too much.

Belgium HybridChiller says:

this is good rule, but.... are there already people busted by this rule? find it strange that somebody gives money fo a score, give the money better to hardware and play with it yourself

Iran Olesius says:

can i buy a result for Lord Of Overclocking competition too?! :D

Belgium richba5tard says:

@Antinomy: IMHO I find replacing codecs or other internals of a benchmark software an obvious cheat, but as it was not clear to everyone I've added it to the rules.

United States Hondacity says:

good rule... surprising results for lords of overclocking....

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

richba5tard if it's like the 3Dmark 2001 hack when you replace the textures - I fully agree, it is. But when you upgrade the codec to a newer version that does exactly the same achieving the same result in output but in a more optimized and thus faster way - I consider this like the drivers version - if it renders fine but faster - it's normal to use. If it render improperly like the Intel GMA issue - it should be forbidden. This is how I was looking on the situation - you can do anything unless to get faster without loosing details.
This is why I didn't think that this is obvious. Thank you for clearing this up, I really appreciate that.

Nice expression, "to use different calculation algorithms as intended by the original software creator" - fits for a bunch of cases in one shot.

United States steponz says:

darn, I shouldn't have wasted the cash on a 2nd board from MSI that couldn't clock at all..... burn MSI burn...

United States G H Z says:

Antinomy said: But when you upgrade the codec to a newer version that does exactly the same achieving the same result in output but in a more optimized and thus faster way - I consider this like the drivers version - if it renders fine but faster - it's normal to use.


It's not normal because the benchmark was originally written to use a specific set of tests & file config. People can get so lost in what's OK searching for an edge they forget what benchmarks were/are actually created for, to gauge system performance and to have a valid method of comparing against other results. If you alter the default running config of a benchmark you are no longer generating results useful for comparison. Drivers are the lone exception because they need constant updating and are the reason FM approves them before letting them onto the ORB. In short, the answer to your comment is no, hwbot will not be letting these types of changes into PCMark.

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

You really should reread my post - I wasn't asking for anything. I only thanked RB for clearing out the rules and showed my point of view on this and why I didn't think of this as an obvious situation :) And at this moment the codec rule is cleared and many other issues. Though, obviously not all of them. Far from this.

Portugal WoOx3r[Pt] says:

some cheat on benchmarks, some tamper images, some post scores made with other cpu's and say that they were made with a different one, but buying and selling scores? i had no clue people were doing this but i believe that it's probably the time to put some tighter rules on submissions, like a hardware photo with a piece of paper with the overclocker name near it or something, that would help a bit i think.
for everybody who does sell and buy scores i have the following message:

if you buy a score from someone it's pretty obvious that the guy that made it can do a better one.
if you post a score you bought, it will be passed sooner or later by the guy who sold it to you or by a friend of him, or by any other person that has the same hardware and better tools or knowledge or both and you can do nothing about it.
if you buy a veeeery good score that many people will believe you are an overclocking god because of it, they will soon realize you ain't because you won't be able to repeat the stunt in front on a competition, or on video, or somethng like that.
if you buy scores because you think you will have easier access to competitions and to learn some ''secrets'' with good overclockers, you are probably a bit right, but if you do it you won't be able to achieve good scores by yourself because if that was true, you would have done it in the first place, so you will lose, and your time and money is wasted.
i strongly believe that some of the things that are good to see in the overclocking community are: trust, healthy competition (no grudge against someone that did a better score by legal means), knowledge and the opportunity for everybody in the world to post scores, to learn, to participate alongside with the ''big boys'', to have nice and informative chats about hardware and many other stuff with people that share the same passion, so please, cut the crap and don't screw it up.
some people post scores and are last on the hardware category where they posted and aren't ashamed of it because there's no reason for such thing.
to everybody that does this stuff, please, grow a brain.

Greece zoro says:

a nice rule! but how can you prove that this score is from another guy and most important, how can you prove that it was paid?

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

And how can you prove whether a result was photoshoped or not? Everybody makes a mistake. Sooner or later.

Belgium Massman says:

If we say how we can prove, then you can find a better way to cheat ... ;)

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

Agree 100% ! :)

New Zealand packet says:

Massman said: If we say how we can prove, then you can find a better way to cheat ... ;)


+1

my experience with the Law is a law is introduced with a precedent so im guessing that hwbot had an attack of cheaters recently and this is the by-product...it (selling submissions) may sound ridiculous but obviously somebody tried it on

Iran Olesius says:

Really a nice rule and i hope that you could find this kind of results as soon as possible to have a healthy community and competitions but i think it would be so hard is you need to guess who bought from whom. Another thing that you should be consider of is sharing results with different clocks with a same system. Despite having his own 980x my team mate is worry about submitting results with my mobo and thinks that you may call his results "sharing" but someones else doing this "even" with same processor and no ones looks to be responsible for this kind of submissions. I hope you the best in finding such results Pieter as 'Fair Play' is our desire.

United States Minor Outlying Islands Kal-EL says:

It might help if any top twenty results (world record or not) in any hardware category required screenshots & orb links.

How much would this gem sell for on the black market? http://hwbot.org/community/submission/497470_richba5tard_3dmark_2003_s3_unichrome_pro_38_marks :nana:

Germany -Masterchief- says:

knopflerbruce said: How much for a nice K8 score?:D


heheh yea^^

wtf, people who buy scores or everything else should realy get a lifetime ban, there i totally agree ! :)

greetz -Masterchief-

Hiwa says:

ppl like them should be ban everywhere not just on HWBOT.
one day it was a hobby play hardware, nowadays it's a bussiness for manufactories.

a lot of Cheaters around a lot of fake

Germany der8auer says:

what the hell o.0

First time i've heard of ppl buying scores for money. But it seems to be necessary - so good rule!

Poland proste71 says:

People who selling and buying scores are SICK :)

France jmax_oc says:

Let's purge HWBot from those infect people (buyers and sellers)

Colombia e-Killer says:

Now i know why HWbot crew consider this Update so important, Just check LOOC :S

United Kingdom Dualist says:

I hope hwbot will name and shame all involved in buying and selling and ban them forever.
I spend a lot of money on this just for fun and the competition, thats all I want out of this hobby, no freebies or sponsorship, just beating someone with my own hardware, cooling and skills is what this should be all about.

United States sno says:

SO if there has to be an announcement about it, it's actually happened. While we're on the topic, are there anyone here that wants to buy some WOW gold to go with your purchased benchmarks? You can probably buy some myspace friends too if you're really that desperate :p

United States Gomeler says:

I'd like to know who made this rule come about.

Australia Uncle Fester says:

I think its a knee jerk reaction after the MSI LOC comp, where FM were able to prove people were sharing validation files and screenshots, openly admitted by skinnee that he recieved results from Andre, unknown what the case is with HIWA as his results were removed too. Is there any competition that doesn't caught up with drama these days. Will HWBOT take this to its full extents even tho the results were not put on HWBOT who knows. ________ Canadian Recipes

Germany joe_cool says:

uncle fester said: I think its a knee jerk reaction after the MSI LOC comp, where FM were able to prove people were sharing validation files and screenshots, openly admitted by skinnee that he recieved results from Andre, unknown what the case is with HIWA as his results were removed too. Is there any competition that doesn't caught up with drama these days.
Will HWBOT take this to its full extents even tho the results were not put on HWBOT who knows.


FM will have a good reason why HIWA is not the winner of the MSI LOC comp in Europe. ;)

_

United States icebob says:

FM is already a decade behind what's going on in the oc scene, how can they find out who's cheating?

United States trans am says:

WTF? I never knew this problem ever existed. I've heard of people selling their world of war craft files, everquest, etc. and thought that was totally ridiculous. Now Ive seen everything! I can see asking a buddy for help with a particular bios setting on the same setup as you but actually selling results? I dont really see the benefit unless the person sharing the files is on the same OC team as you to get their teams rank higher as a whole. dont get any ideas guys. all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the bunch and it makes everyone else in our community look bad. cheating is just bad Karma and its just going to come back and bite you in the ass when you least expect it. maybe it will be a piece of expensive hardware that you kill...or a ban, or you splash ln2 in your eyes. Whatever it is... it always comes back later. honesty is always the best policy.

Brazil Rbuass says:

I'll give my opinion.
Lose many hours and money in a country where hardware and technology is very difficult to get, for people making impressive results deceitful and worthless, and worse yet, share ( or sell) it.
The community of overclockers do not need this kind of people.
Furthermore, I believe that light punishments, incentives are up to the cheaters, because they know that the penalty is light.
Only with exemplary punishment, ie, removing cheaters from our community forever, will not appear new cheaters and only honest people will participate in our community.
I know it's hard, but for me, once cheater, always cheater ... and more .... if you cheated and was once discovered, may have cheated many times without anyone knowing.
Buy score = cheat; chance codec = cheat; photoshop = cheat....is all the same...cheat is cheat.
This is my opinion and I know I have this right ... and I say this clearly to everyone because I have never made any such dishonesty and I know I'll never do.
Light punishment = more cheaters in the community

;)

Norway knopflerbruce says:

rbuass said: I'll give my opinion.
Lose many hours and money in a country where hardware and technology is very difficult to get, for people making impressive results deceitful and worthless, and worse yet, share ( or sell) it.
The community of overclockers do not need this kind of people.
Furthermore, I believe that light punishments, incentives are up to the cheaters, because they know that the penalty is light.
Only with exemplary punishment, ie, removing cheaters from our community forever, will not appear new cheaters and only honest people will participate in our community.
I know it's hard, but for me, once cheater, always cheater ... and more .... if you cheated and was once discovered, may have cheated many times without anyone knowing.
Buy score = cheat; chance codec = cheat; photoshop = cheat....is all the same...cheat is cheat.
This is my opinion and I know I have this right ... and I say this clearly to everyone because I have never made any such dishonesty and I know I'll never do.
Light punishment = more cheaters in the community

;)


I don't feel we're giving light punishments in cheating cases, but lifetime is usually overkill. People learn from their mistakes, if they cheat again they're out for good. That doesn't happen very often, which means the ban they get lasts long enough to make them realize that it's not worth it.

United States steponz says:

I think bans for selling and buying is a must.... especially for those on top... lifetime is a bit much... people do learn.. but need some time..... couple years would be good...

Brazil Rbuass says:

knopflerbruce said: I don't feel we're giving light punishments in cheating cases, but lifetime is usually overkill. People learn from their mistakes, if they cheat again they're out for good. That doesn't happen very often, which means the ban they get lasts long enough to make them realize that it's not worth it.


I understand your point friend...
I gave my opinion because I feel deeply affected by this type of attitude.
I have no easily PC parts and conditions as some "cheaters" have lots of hardware, I have no sponsorship or support (some members here know me and know that I live a simple life); I do OC by passion and a liter of LN2 spent about U$ 6, to have to be passed by someone who cheated.
I understand your way of thinking, but I think differently.
I think the Dodgers should have thought of the punishment before they had done the cheating.
One question...
If no one had discovered the cheat, the cheaters would apologize in public or in their homes would be celebrating your results?
I spent more than i can to get the equipment to participate to LOOC (ES isn t allowed) , and stayed late into the night to be exceeded few minutes before deadline (third in the competition).
While missing a few seconds, I was overtaken by cheating.
Nothing can pay for two days of disappointment I did have
Nothing can afford the effort that a competitor was honest and his misfortune of losing their fair result
Therefore, I accept your way of thinking and I know you are fair and honest person, but at this point of view I think different.
I think nobody will miss cheaters and if hwbot input a hard and exemplar punishment, never more we will have another case like this.

HWBot confirmed
"Since HWBOT does not tolerate the sale of benchmark scores, the act of both selling or buying benchmark scores and uploading them to this database is not allowed. In addition, we strongly believe that no overclocker who is involved in this kind of business should be allowed to be part of the community. Therefore HWBOT will remove any overclocker who buys and/or sells benchmark scores from the rankings and will give this user a lifetime ban"


But...thats your decision...
Any decision will be ok for me

;)

Puerto Rico chispy says:

Sad very Sad indeed :(

United States Minor Outlying Islands Kal-EL says:

Lousy jerkwad behavior. Dirty Jackfruit cheating, major fail, sad!

United States BenchZowner says:

Lifetime ban to the seller at least, or suck up and let everyone know that he's free to cheat his way to the top. End of story. p.s. Is all this the reason why Andre wanted so much to get rid of me ? :D Nice try moron.

Greece zoro says:

So futuremark is the "policeman" of OC! :p
good job indeed!

Norway knopflerbruce says:

BenchZowner said: Lifetime ban to the seller at least, or suck up and let everyone know that he's free to cheat his way to the top.
End of story.

p.s. Is all this the reason why Andre wanted so much to get rid of me ? :D
Nice try moron.


Just to make it clear... AndreYang's benchmark scores are all legit - that's not what this is all about. He didn't cheat his way to the top, at all!

It takes two to tango, and IMO the seller isn't any worse than the buyer. Both seller and buyer(s) are doing the exact same thing: score sharing. The seller can decide not to do it before the score is handed over, and the buyer can decide not to upload it (or accept the score).

I'm surprised that you - of all - talk about lifetime bans, when you more or less banned yourself for life - but returned within a day or what it was...

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

I wanted to ask Massman to forgive me about the words "Do you really think this rule update is the most important one?", I didn't know how serious was the case in the events. From what I've read, it really was the most important addendum. Though, the words about other bugs still stays :)

United States dejo says:

Will they be allowed to gather hardware again in the same hardware groups for points when they get back? If so, (not that it matters to little ol me) then they will just gather the hardware again, and proceed right back to the spots they attained before

TaPaKaH says:

Kinda useless rule addition, as it has just proven.

Both the seller and the buyer can simply claim that there was no money involved (and you can't prove otherwise) making their transaction falling into "score sharing" category which has softer penalty.

Poland sheri-robak-tiger says:

BenchZowner said: Lifetime ban to the seller at least, or suck up and let everyone know that he's free to cheat his way to the top.
End of story.

p.s. Is all this the reason why Andre wanted so much to get rid of me ? :D
Nice try moron.


Eventually it turned out that you were right :D
Congrats :P

Greece euklidis says:

The basic question is one... after a year, when they will return, will the still have the shared score uploaded? They won't have that many point for sure, cause other will overcome, but are they going to have points for that submissions?

United States dejo says:

I am sure they will still be benching, and saving screens, just getting ready to make a quick comeback. And the same people that they compete with now will still be there more than likely also. So its just a matter of posting new scores and moving up the ranks again.

This wont take any ability from any of them, they are still the elite of the overclocking world. And I have no doubt of any of their ability to compete. There is one thing good that can come of this and that is that we can all learn a valuable lesson.

Netherlands diezel says:

Definitely a good rule

United States BenchZowner says:

dejo said: I am sure they will still be benching, and saving screens, just getting ready to make a quick comeback. And the same people that they compete with now will still be there more than likely also. So its just a matter of posting new scores and moving up the ranks again.

This wont take any ability from any of them, they are still the elite of the overclocking world. And I have no doubt of any of their ability to compete. There is one thing good that can come of this and that is that we can all learn a valuable lesson.


There's only one thing that might teach them a lesson, losing any support from the manufacturers.
No more cherrypicked CPUs/RAMs/GPUs, no more trays of CPUs, mobo's and VGAs.
Some of you might be aware of this, some not, but some of the overclockers ( at least one involved in this incident ) received 15 or more GTX 480's ( free samples of course ), 3-4 Xpower mobos from MSI, multiple samples from Asus, and CPUs & mobos & multiple VGAs from Gigabyte.

Especially the "famous overclocker" the one who's at least rumored to be very wealthy, and speaks so proudly of his money and with my own money I bin hundreds of CPUs, shouldn't be accepting any samples or at least not multiple samples and tell the manufacturers to give other people a try, or not ?
Maybe I'm just crazy.

BZ is off

says:

Sam OCX said: Kinda useless rule addition, as it has just proven.

Both the seller and the buyer can simply claim that there was no money involved (and you can't prove otherwise) making their transaction falling into "score sharing" category which has softer penalty.


Everyone could deny money involvement. It's so easy But let them PROVE IT
as richba5tard says :
If there is something suspicious, a member has to prove the submission is correct by supplying a futuremark url, redo the benchmark with a proper screenshot, etc

So the member have to prove that there was no money involved, and how to prove it that's not our problem.

Russian Federation Antinomy says:

And again, I would like to QUOTE Massman about "HWBot doesn't implement rules that are hard to check". Proving that money are not involved is the exact case but the the other way around - from the members point of view. In other words - a rule must be intelligent, not stupid. And convenient.

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