HWBOT OC Challenge June 2010

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This month, things get a little different as well. The benchmark now remains the same, unlike the May challenge, but we have different limitations for the three stages. The benchmark of this month will be MaxxMem, this combined with any AMD processor. We've split up the benchmark into three parts: DDR1, DDR2 and DDR3. Have fun!

Teilnehmen

HWBOT OC Challenge June 2010 ist geschlossen seit 30 Juni 2010.
Dieser Wettkampf ist zwischen Mitglieder.

Der Wettkampf ist beendet. Du kannst nicht mehr beitreten.

Stages:

Stage 1 - MaxxMem DDR1
Stage 2 - MaxxMem DDR2
Stage 3 - MaxxMem DDR3

Teilnehmer

Dieser Wettkampf war offen für alle.

Diskussionen (0)

Discuss the competition at the HWBOT forum (86 comments)

HWBOT General Rules and Guidelines

Here at HWBOT we try our best to deliver a fair and enjoyable playing field for all those who participate in the rankings and competition. To be able to provide this kind of service we have tried to design some submission and general rules to help remove any doubts about whether something is allowed or not. Based on continued experience these rules will be updated, expanded and completed as time goes by. Please check back for any updates.

Zeit übrig:

Geschlossen!

Wähle Rangliste:

HWBOT OC Challenge June 2010Rangliste

chew*

24 pts

Massman

19 pts

knopflerbruce

16 pts

.D3vil.

12 pts

Hampti

10 pts

Moonman

9 pts

MrIcee

6 pts

yoko

5 pts

aGeoM

5 pts

nasiban

3 pts

Coolfx

3 pts

placid

2 pts

dumo

2 pts

B-MAX

1 pts

zabit

0 pts

yamahar1

0 pts

xandelly

0 pts

uNiT

0 pts

subaruwrc

0 pts

sparky

0 pts

slagsmal

0 pts

siouxx

0 pts

netmask

0 pts

micul

0 pts

leeghoofd

0 pts

kutuloncat

0 pts

juanjo81

0 pts

johnamd

0 pts

guenther93

0 pts

egm_xt

0 pts

danit

0 pts

bartolomius

0 pts

ageorge2500

0 pts

ViViD

0 pts

Strunkenbold

0 pts

PROBN4LYFE

0 pts

NoMS

0 pts

Moral David

0 pts

Krelin

0 pts

Johni5

0 pts

Ir4klis

0 pts

G.Foyle

0 pts

DEVILEK

0 pts

Axl

0 pts

AJIb6A

0 pts

Offizieller Wettkampf

This is an online event. Participants can compete from all around the world, and make submissions online.

As this is an official level 1 competition, competitors will receive season points for the final ranking as following.

Kommentare

31 Mai 2010 NoMS says:

Where the download link for june challenge background? And why not a SDRAM category?

1 Juni 2010 Dry_Ice777 says:

Yes. Where the download link for background?

I have benched some DDR1 and DDR2 memory and have some good results,but without background.

Please, give to us background...))

1 Juni 2010 Alriin says:

An interesting Competition... but i think the Benchmark Maxxmem is still a little bit buggy.

Anyway i should like to enter the contest.

Let the Battle begin. :-)

1 Juni 2010 Massman says:

Oops ... the background. I knew I forgot something. Will upload tonight.

MaxxMem shouldn't be buggy with older (read: supported) hardware. I suppose there's no problem for the Thuban, but if there is, we'll just have to look for a solution.

1 Juni 2010 danit says:

Is There Any Prizes?

For Each Category?

1 Juni 2010 Massman says:

No. This is about having fun.

1 Juni 2010 danit says:

So I Hope it will be great fun also where could we download the background?

1 Juni 2010 ViViD says:

OK Waiting For BackGround

1 Juni 2010 danit says:

Ok guys im getting into it have nice overclocking and we will see who would win

1 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

No. This is about having fun.

As always

But... shouldn't the points earned in the challenge be added to our personal profile?

Thanks

We already have one submition.

2 Juni 2010 PROBN4LYFE says:

lol...dust off those old boxes guys

2 Juni 2010 Massman says:

Background was added in the competition page

2 Juni 2010 Massman says:

There seems to be some issues with the DDR3 stage ... trying to fix it right now.

3 Juni 2010 ViViD says:

Question Guys:

Can I Submit For 2 Stage?

Stage 1 And Stage 2 With 2 Rig?

I Have Two Rig And Can Submit For Stage One And Two

3 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

As far as you use AMD's CPU you can submit with any system as you want.

3 Juni 2010 Massman says:

You can submit in all three stages with all CPU

4 Juni 2010 ViViD says:

Ok Rich Guys Show More Rig

4 Juni 2010 knopflerbruce says:

Just wondering... is this benchmark dependant on CPU speed? I mean... I run some sticks at 300x9, will I get a better score at 300x10, for example? I know I could probably try it myself, but i need to finish my exams first

4 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

Just wondering... is this benchmark dependant on CPU speed? I mean... I run some sticks at 300x9, will I get a better score at 300x10, for example? I know I could probably try it myself, but i need to finish my exams first

From my tests, had some improvement. (DDR)

Check the DDR submissions I matched DDR speed (258) from 2nd place, only (tRC) is different.

EDIT

Multi @9, I'd change HT ref, to equal DDR speed @258.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

4 Juni 2010 knopflerbruce says:

In other words... I need some LN2 if i want to compete:D My exams are over soon, and I got a nice TCCD kit in the mail a few days ago - maybe I can get a decent score at least for DDR.

4 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

In other words... I need some LN2 if i want to compete:D My exams are over soon, and I got a nice TCCD kit in the mail a few days ago - maybe I can get a decent score at least for DDR.

Yes, LN2... hope some day feel the experience of it, it's hot in here (south of Portugal), room temp around 28ºC and no AC, ( a lot of fans bloowing the hardware)

All the best for the competition and exams, specially for the exams.

4 Juni 2010 knopflerbruce says:

Yes, LN2... hope some day feel the experience of it, it's hot in here (south of Portugal), room temp around 28ºC and no AC, ( a lot of fans bloowing the hardware)

All the best for the competition and exams, specially for the exams.

TY. The exam will be OK, I need more luck for my new TCCD-kit:p

4 Juni 2010 G.Foyle says:

Just wondering... is this benchmark dependant on CPU speed?

Yes - mostly because L1 and L2 caches run at core speed

4 Juni 2010 zoro says:

correct!

also every little tiny sub timing you are able to lower, you will gain more and more points

4 Juni 2010 knopflerbruce says:

I'll give it a shot with my UTT sticks as well as my TCCDs:D

5 Juni 2010 placid says:

Does all versions Maxxmem allowed, or only the latest?

5 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

Does all versions Maxxmem allowed, or only the latest?

http://www.maxxpi.net/pages/downloads/maxxmemsup2---preview.php

* There are no changes at the main benchroutine since initial release.

So your reaced results will be comparable, from v1.05 to all further upcoming releases.

I had to use v1.74 bcz 1.82 doesn't run on my M2N32-Deluxe, checket the task manager, and CPU-Z was heating all resources, and got stuck.

6 Juni 2010 Massman says:

1000p on DDR2 is nice. Could it be because of the NB speed?

In my DDR3 testing, I noticed that NB speed made quite the difference.

6 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

1000p on DDR2 is nice. Could it be because of the NB speed?

In my DDR3 testing, I noticed that NB speed made quite the difference.

yes indeed does, I´m on DDR3 now, and was a good jump from IMC ~2900->3200 plus thigh timings on memory.

With better cooling is possible do hit 1100 marks.

7 Juni 2010 Massman says:

Yes - mostly because L1 and L2 caches run at core speed

If I not mistaken, the IMC in the S939 CPUS is running always 1:1 with the CPU frequency, which means that increasing the CPU frequency also increases the IMC frequency.

7 Juni 2010 zoro says:

Not always. you can choose a different CPU:RAM divider if i remembered correctly

7 Juni 2010 Massman says:

Ram != Imc

7 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

If I not mistaken, the IMC in the S939 CPUS is running always 1:1 with the CPU frequency, which means that increasing the CPU frequency also increases the IMC frequency.

Correct, but for S939, another factor must got our attention, HT Link frequency. Doesn't afect scores as IMC's does, but have influence too.

Squezze them all...

Another thing I notice, doesn't matter much the number of cores in use, results are identical.

9 Juni 2010 zoro says:

What about L3 cache? i think it makes the maxmemm to run slower or not?

9 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

What about L3 cache? i think it makes the maxmemm to run slower or not?

Yes, it does. I can confirm, by comparing my Phenom II 955/965's with Athlon II/Sempron results.

9 Juni 2010 zoro says:

Thanks aGeoM!

one other think we have to consider is the use of 32 or 64 XP,Vista or Win7. I am checking some myself.

9 Juni 2010 ageorge2500 says:

higher fsb is better than multi for black edition's and vista is better than win 7 .I have not try xp yet

9 Juni 2010 knopflerbruce says:

OK... HOLIDAYS! Maybe I'll look for my 939 drive straight away to test some sticks.

9 Juni 2010 knopflerbruce says:

OK, My PC5000 OCZ sticks are very good based on the memtest results, I could run 2.5-3-3-7-1T at 3.1v and... 326Mhz:D (tested one pass through test 5, that's the toughest one AFAIK) - I wonder if this particular test likes frequency over timings, if so maybe I should use these instead of my VX kit:)

I'll try in windows when I find my bench drive, it's somewhere in my mess

Edit: 2.5-4-3-7 335Mhz with 2 errors Too afraid to go any higher on the voltage for just quick testing, so I'll leave it at that I have more sticks to try. And... still onthe Expert, I bet they can do slightly more on the Venus:)

10 Juni 2010 chew* says:

Ok guys don't waste your time on ln2, NB does not play a major role in l3 less cache chips on ddr II.

Pic in a bit when i shut this system down.......running 32m on athlon chip with ddr II O_o

10 Juni 2010 chew* says:

check this out, the math is not adding up, wheres my boost from NB with l3 less cache cpu

http://chew.ln2cooling.com/athlon%20II%20255/LN2/maxmem2.jpg

Frosty shot for kicks.

http://chew.ln2cooling.com/athlon%20II%20255/LN2/IMG_2633.jpg

10 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

Ok guys don't waste your time on ln2, NB does not play a major role in l3 less cache chips on ddr II.

Pic in a bit when i shut this system down.......running 32m on athlon chip with ddr II O_o

I didn't say that, it's important but not the major, Maximum Latency read does.

10 Juni 2010 chew* says:

I didn't say that, it's important but not the major, Maximum Latency read does.

very well aware of MRL, at best it got 30 points not 300.

10 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

very well aware of MRL, at best it got 30 points

yep how far did you go... 55..52 maybe.

Check my new score DDR3

10 Juni 2010 chew* says:

yep how far did you go... 55..52 maybe.

Check my new score DDR3

40?

10 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

40?

Here is the full timings

10 Juni 2010 chew* says:

yah thats not the problem , the problem is apparently this bench is useless and bugged apparently with l3 less cpu's.

It's rather obvious that there's no way in hell that that sempron will beat a phenom in anything mem intensive other than this bench much less intel in ddr II.

10 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

yah thats not the problem , the problem is apparently this bench is useless and bugged apparently with l3 less cpu's.

It's rather obvious that there's no way in hell that that sempron will beat a phenom in anything mem intensive other than this bench much less intel in ddr II.

I don't know about programming, and at some point you are right, does not make sense, but maybe... L3 is much slower than L1 and L2, and the program calculates the access time based in the 3 caches, making the score lower in L3 cases. Hopefully I also have here an 965 Phenom II, and we can test this "bug" theory. Until now what I notice is using lower MLR in conjunction with the other settings have showing an constant growing in scores.

BTW what is your default MRL at NB>4000?

Thx

EDIT

Run MaxxMEM w/Phenom II 965 @ same settings as before w/ Sempron, only Ganged was active didn't notice until I opened CPU-Z, but shouldn't be the problem:

EDIT 2

Played w/ NB, now @~3700 and lowered MLR to 43, tRW-TO and tRW-WB to 5:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

What's the conclusion of it?

10 Juni 2010 chew* says:

conclusion is bench is bugged and your MRL is alloiwng you to go very low for whatever reason. On ddr II board max lowest is 52 atm

10 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

conclusion is bench is bugged and your MRL is alloiwng you to go very low for whatever reason. On ddr II board max lowest is 52 atm

I'm on DDR3, and yes 52 is the lower I got booting at 9x on DDR2, and you can lower your MLR too, just configure lower NB in Bios and you will see. eg. 7x or 8x

10 Juni 2010 Massman says:

Just send a mail to the coder of the application. Hope he knows what's up.

This looks to be a problem of unsupported architecture. We had the same issue when the Gulftown appeared.

10 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

Just send a mail to the coder of the application. Hope he knows what's up.

This looks to be a problem of unsupported architecture. We had the same issue when the Gulftown appeared.

Hi, I already used 3 CPU's and 3 board's, Athon II X2 250, Sempron 140 and now Phenom II 965, boards are ASUS M2N32-Deluxe WE bios 5001, ASUS M3A79-T bios 1203, and ASUS Crosshair IV Formula bios 903.

Still playing NB and MLR and the last score is 1862.7 picture in a minute. LOL

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[EDIT

http://cid-8828d15347fc782f.office.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/HWBOT/959l1730^_dc5501cc^_MaxxMem2.save

10 Juni 2010 knopflerbruce says:

It could be something that isn't optimized for L3 cache in the code. Even so, a benchmark result isn't necessarily a good representation of real world performance.

I bet there are cases where HT actually harms performance as well, but it's not a bug:p

10 Juni 2010 chew* says:

I'm on DDR3, and yes 52 is the lower I got booting at 9x on DDR2, and you can lower your MLR too, just configure lower NB in Bios and you will see. eg. 7x or 8x

Yep o know how to bring MRL down but if you rasie NB again with the tighter MRL = frozen screen

10 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

Ok, no tweaks settings from BIOS, NB @ 7x:

Tweaking NB, from 7x to 10:

No freeze, no reboot, just CPU-Tweaker to change NB, you have to open twice for new NB be accepted: open CPU-Tweaker -> change NB -> apply -> exit; then open-> chage some subtiming -> apply -> exit.

Run MaxMEM

11 Juni 2010 chew* says:

Massman......there is more than meets the eye here still.

NO MRL.

no%20mrl.jpg

MRL

BTW just figured it out........It's like a speed hack in 64 bit win 7 apparently.....

Cpu-z shows NB applies on the fly in windows........so does cpu twkr.....but in vista 32 score says otherwise.........will take a you tube of it

Also it's doesn't actually change NB in bios.......and now my OS thinks i'm at 2700 NB.

11 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

Just do the NB tweak, heres my last one NB @ 4700, when asked to reboot press [Cancel] and then reopen CPU Tweak.

MLR is at same 44 in the 3 cases, no change.

11 Juni 2010 chew* says:

Yes i see that..........are you on LN2?

If No do you really think your at 4700 NB?

Do you really think it's applying?

no it isn't so therfore its an exploit of some form?

11 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

There is no exploit, just do what I say and you will see, only now testing an Black Edition I can go over 10x in NB w/ CPU Tweak.

Here's the last one, this time I set in BIOS NB@ 6x to force lower MLR (39) and then changed NB as I explain to you to 14x.

For some reason I don't know MaxMEM is acting as if I was at 4700, but results are consistent.

EDIT

Well, Why not go for extreme NB speed 30x...

11 Juni 2010 chew* says:

the problem is GEO if your not understanding is your not actually at that NB speed you think you are.........Windows/or maxxmem however thinks you are .

Combined with the low MRL with the NB speed windows thinks you have it is impacting the bench.......call it an exploit or call it a cheat but your NB is not applying I am looking in bios.......it's not applied.........I'm in vista 32........although it says i'm at 2700 NB right now vista 32 is not tricked and performance is that of 800 NB which is what is set in bios

You would find that it would be impossible to run that tight an MRL at XXX NB speeds

Regardless of how you get it up whether that be an actual ability to raise via software.....which most boards can't do.

Believe me I am 1000% keen on the way MRL works and it does not work the way you think it does.

I suggest just my 2c that you clock your NB from bios and redo your results

I would dump win7 64 bit as well

As for me I'm all done with this comp till admins clean this mess up.......

11 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

the problem is GEO if your not understanding is your not actually at that NB speed you think you are.........Windows however thinks you are.

Combined with the low MRL with the NB speed windows thinks you have it is impacting the bench.......call it an exploit or call it a cheat but your NB is not applying I am looking in bios.......it's bot applied.........I'm in vista 32........although it says i'm at 2700 NB right now vista 32 is not tricked and performance is that of 800 NB which is what is set in bios

Now I know it's not possible my system is running at NB 4700, I booted many times at NB +3000 with sempron and Athlon, meanig 9x or 10x multis.

Both x86, x64 Win7s applied the NB setting in CPU-Tweaker, the first time I didn't realise what was triggering NB. Only with time I realised that setting NB first and then the timings, MaxMEM was performing faster. Found max NB, then was just playing with sub-timings, far from my mind to be cheating or something similar.

But you can duplicate my fiddings, just do the NB tweak, with multi-core, set affinity to one core.

11 Juni 2010 chew* says:

Now I know it's not possible my system is running at NB 4700, I booted many times at NB +3000 with sempron and Athlon, meanig 9x or 10x multis.

Both x86, x64 Win7s applied the NB setting in CPU-Tweaker, the first time I didn't realise what was triggering NB. Only with time I realised that setting NB first and then the timings, MaxMEM was performing faster. Found max NB, then was just playing with sub-timings, far from my mind to be cheating or something similar.

But you can duplicate my fiddings, just do the NB tweak, with multi-core, set affinity to one core.

I could duplicate it but it's not legit....

I suggest you go back and do some legit results with booted NB multi now that it's quite clear that software was bugged.

If there was an actual program like AOD which may work on some boards on the fly.....you would find the inability to lower MRL just as if you booted it

Just some FYI, I can't duplicate what your doing in vista 32.......so admins may want to look into an OS designation for the remainder of this comp

11 Juni 2010 knopflerbruce says:

Uhhh... I don't get this, is the benchmark just reading some parameters and determining the score based on that, or does it indeed measure some sort of memory performance?

11 Juni 2010 chew* says:

Uhhh... I don't get this, is the benchmark just reading some parameters and determining the score based on that, or does it indeed measure some sort of memory performance?

I'm guessing a little of both......anything can be speedhacked though and thats preety much how the bench is reacting.

Gay bench. Needs to get canned IMHO.

11 Juni 2010 knopflerbruce says:

Needs a fix, the bench itself looks cool:) But i bet there will be some sort of message tomorrow, but I'll leave that to the "big guys" when they wake up in 6-7 hours.

Jus for the record: alot of 3dmark versions are bugged as well, "bugged high, bugged low" - we've all heard that a few times. Time to remove them from the bot, so we're left with am3 + vantage perhaps?

11 Juni 2010 chew* says:

Needs a fix, the bench itself looks cool:) But i bet there will be some sort of message tomorrow, but I'll leave that to the "big guys" when they wake up in 6-7 hours.

Jus for the record: alot of 3dmark versions are bugged as well, "bugged high, bugged low" - we've all heard that a few times. Time to remove them from the bot, so we're left with am3 + vantage perhaps?

I say we just bench the original 3d mark what was it 3dmaxx something or other?

11 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

I could duplicate it but it's not legit....

I suggest you go back and do some legit results with booted NB multi now that it's quite clear that software was bugged.

If there was an actual program like AOD which may work on some boards on the fly.....you would find the inability to lower MRL just as if you booted it

well.. chew, I'm not submitting results, any more, only here, with the intention of clarifying whats happening, CPU-Tweaker allow you to change NB freq, CPU-Z reads, MaxMEM acts as if NB is setting at that speed. You can see by looking to all my results that, in some I raise NB and CPU voltages bcz I was convicted that NB was running at that speed, and since I reached 10x limit I went HT ref route. AOD it's a fine tool, but if you change values there, like NB or HT and some in the memory page, it sets in BIOS to AUTO, insted os MANUAL, and we have to redo all the settings, HT Ref and some voltages...

About you Vista x86, you have to do the right steps to NB get read by MaxMEM, and I'm not sure but all AM2+ and AM3 board can change NB On the Fly w/ CPU-Tweak.

Any way be legit or not, using a software tool to change settings, I will remove my DDR2 and DDR3, for you please, not because I consider I was cheating or using exploids witch I was not, just used a tool in some cases required as validation (MEMSET/CPU-TWEAK) like any other tool (SPI Tweaker, A64Info, K10STAT, etc) you/we use to do your/our benchs.

11 Juni 2010 chew* says:

well.. chew, I'm not submitting results, any more, only here, with the intention of clarifying whats happening, CPU-Tweaker allow you to change NB freq, CPU-Z reads, MaxMEM acts as if NB is setting at that speed. You can see by looking to all my results that, in some I raise NB and CPU voltages bcz I was convicted that NB was running at that speed, and since I reached 10x limit I went HT ref route. AOD it's a fine tool, but if you change values there, like NB or HT and some in the memory page, it sets in BIOS to AUTO, insted os MANUAL, and we have to redo all the settings, HT Ref and some voltages...

About you Vista x86, you have to do the right steps to NB get read by MaxMEM, and I'm not sure but all AM2+ and AM3 board can change NB On the Fly w/ CPU-Tweak.

Any way be legit or not, using a software tool to change settings, I will remove my DDR2 and DDR3, for you please, not because I consider I was cheating or using exploids witch I was not, just used a tool in some cases required as validation (MEMSET/CPU-TWEAK) like any other tool (SPI Tweaker, A64Info, K10STAT, etc) you/we use to do your/our benchs.

Yah not saying you actually knew what was happening, however it's very evident now.

I raised NB with cpu-TWKR to and cpu-z verified it....but it's not real thats where issue lies. Not your fault. You thought it was actually improving your score.

Now that you know however best to redo results

11 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

Yah not saying you actually knew what was happening, however it's very evident now.
I raised NB with cpu-TWKR to and cpu-z verified it....but it's not real thats where issue lies. Not your fault. You thought it was actually improving your score.

Now that you know however best to redo results

LOL... was really improving my scores, the score was obtained by the benchmark, some how it was reading all settings both CPU and memory and calculating from there.

I'm deleting all scores now. You are already in first.

11 Juni 2010 Massman says:

Ouh, this looks bad. So basically, you're changing the NB clock in windows (which is impossible since change NBclk needs hard reboot) and all application read that it's set like this, so you get an unreal score.

Good catch!

11 Juni 2010 aGeoM says:

Ouh, this looks bad. So basically, you're changing the NB clock in windows (which is impossible since change NBclk needs hard reboot) and all application read that it's set like this, so you get an unreal score.

Good catch!

Well, only with Phenom II I realise the "unreal" score before I used the M2N32, with that board NB was set by default to 8x max, so on CPU-Tweak I could change NB 8x to 10x by Apply and Cancel on Reboot message, after many trials, to level the NB default of the Sempron/Athlon II, as we know are locked to 10x.

The "exploid" as chew called, only begans when I was forced to proff that the results are legit, changed board to M3A79-T and later cpu to Phenom II, with unlocked NB first 11 then 12...14 and at last 30.

I removed all my scores now.

11 Juni 2010 Massman says:

Just submit a few scores ... too bad I apparently killed ALL of my DDR2 boards.

11 Juni 2010 zoro says:

how did you manage to do that?

11 Juni 2010 chew* says:

Just submit a few scores ... too bad I apparently killed ALL of my DDR2 boards.

If you wan't I can make you feel better with my death toll

OCZ booster ( might be salvagable with some soldering work )

9800 PRO ( no clue, blew out a trace in AGP slot )

939 x2 3800 instadeath at 3.3vddr

DVD rom connected to system when card popped ( my guess is feedback through 12v rail )

Persistance pays though, finally got some ddr benching in.

11 Juni 2010 Massman says:

how did you manage to do that?

I did it in the past because I overclock